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Rendering

kinsleymarkkinsleymark Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
I was mainly excited about the App store because I wanted to be able to use rendering capabilities. Currently I use Fusion360 for all my concept modeling and rendering - so I'm looking forward to seeing the direction that Onshape takes. I'm just posting my initial reactions so far and will continue to add to this as I use it more.

First off, the integrated rendering options (Clara.io and OneRender) are a bit too basic and limited for my needs. They'll probably be great for engineers looking to bang out a quick visual, but they aren't suitable yet for much more. They are also a bit slow and painful to use. With that being said, it's still pretty great to see cloud-based options directly inside of Onshape. Well done!

I would like to see a consistent user experience between Onshape and each App. For example, in Onshape, my RMB is used to rotate the model and the LMB is used to click and drag parts. However, inside OneRender, the mouse buttons are switched up and my LMB is used to rotate the model and the RMB is used to pan the view. It would be great if Onshape required all integrated apps to adhere to a standard set of interface rules.

Side note: as a Mac user, I'm on Safari. I was not able to get OneRender to run. I received an error: "Notice: Undefined index: state_0 in /var/www/onerender2015/onshape/includes/oauth.php on line 34......". I had to install and use Chrome to run Onshape to run OneRender. Probably just an easy bug to clean up.

Lastly, I'm a heavy Keyshot user. I love the new integration with Onshape! I've only just recently upgraded to Keyshot6, so I'm still playing around with it. However, it's very straightforward and easy to open Onshape models and link everything together. Well done! I'll definitely continue to use Keyshot over any of the other integrated rendering options. My only wish is that Keyshot will eventually move to a cloud version that is as feature-filled and professional as it's desktop app.

Overall, I'm very impressed with Onshape and the App store so far. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Comments

  • awkawk Member, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 78
    The issue with OneRender in Safari may have been caused by a Safari setting which by defaults prevents an iframe from using Cookies, you can adjust this setting and make Safari behave similarly to Chrome and Firefox by changing the 'Cookies and website data' setting on the Privacy tab of Safari preferences to 'Allow from websites I visit' (IIRC the default is 'Allow from current website only')
    Director of API, Appstore, and App Partner Technical Support
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    @kinsleymark
    were you able to render something in OneRender what you could compare to images rendered in keyshot?

    I don't know am I just too simple person to understand how to use other rendeders but Keyshot is currently the only one that can produce decent images with the effort I'm willing to use.

    I have tried alibre photorender, hypershot, keyshot, lagoa, maxwell, onerender, clara i.o and reality server - only ones I have ever liked was hypershot and keyshot which are the same.

    My approach to any software is that if I can't figure out basics in one go without manuals - I will move on. I know I might judge too soon, but this approach has lead me to use software like libreoffice, googledocs, dropbox, photoshop, alibre, onshape, keyshot and forced me to code my own ERP for my company. When I was younger I often gave some popular software another change but they wasn't any better and it just felt like waste of time.
    //rami
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    For rendering there should be something for everybody, super simple, to high end artistry.  

    Integrated Cloud apps

    One Render
    Reality Server
    Clara.io


    Desktop Connected (Mac and Windows)

    Keyshot
    Maxwell

    Each is unique....   

    Starting at Integrated apps

    One Render offers full rendering suit of tools.... the trick IMO, is make sure to use the predefined scenes. below is just red plastic... but it took my 20 sec from start to hitting render... and you can render many images at the same time








    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    Reality Server

    I find this to have a very streamlined UI.... and the results are beautiful



    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    Clara.io

    This not only has the drag and drop rendering.. .but it has all kind of extra features, like translators or public galleries or full keyframe animations like a Modo or Maya

    https://clara.io/view/63759c01-8df1-4784-9dd0-50ff447da029





    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • namleknamlek Member, Developers Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Joe,

    are there any material presets available for Reality Server ?
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    RealityServer does not have preset materials yet.   However you can save your own. So once you dial in a few materials, you can save them and reuse them.  Here are a few I created.... sorry I am lazy.... so I tried screen capture the relevant parameters


    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    And here is Keyshot... Only took be about 1 min from start to finish


    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    @joe_dunne
    Do you know is it possible to send in material (furniture panels) somewhere to have perfect material into render software like onerender, keyshot or similar? I have tried scanning and editing similar materials to look right but at best they are 'ok'. I'm looking for images that could truly replace the need for photographing so that I could have product images, detail images and interior images. 

    I tried to contact keyshot through feedback couple times but never got any response.

    ps. All renderers produce nice images with glossy paints or massive woods but producing image from mdf panel that has edgebands (with grain) is very difficult to make look realistic.

    For example:

    //rami
  • Mitch_PricerMitch_Pricer OS Professional, Developers Posts: 27 PRO
    It would be awesome if there was a plug-in for Keyshot 5 as well instead of only Keyshot 6.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    edited December 2015
    @Mitch_Pricer_Designs_LLC
    I think we all know why there isn't..


    //rami
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,117 PRO
    @3dcad I'd assume your example is photo of what you want to achieve from a render? 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    @brucebartlett
    Yes, it's example of detail photos we take to bring better 'touch' for webshops and brochure. I think that would be easy render for keyshot but I don't know how to make sheet manufacturer and material creator to find one another. I also don't know how to create such bumpmaps etc myself.. and it's same thing everytime we get new material to production.
    //rami
  • joe_dunnejoe_dunne Onshape Employees, Developers, Simulation EVP Posts: 162
    You need 2 things to make a image look "real" and reflect the actual grain and material characteristics for a specific real world material like you show 

    1. UV mapping
    2. Custom material definition

    The UV mapping is rather straightforward. It's a box map. Several of the rendering applications will allow you to assign a UZ mapping to geometry... Both Maxwell and Keyshot handle this nicely.. more to come.. 

    Material definition is where things tend to get more complicated. Since there are so many physical phenomena that you must take into account. The most basic approach is to start texture map of the wood grain..

    All you need is a simple JPG of the material (no shininess, no reflection, brightspot etc..)..  However if you don't already have this, this can be difficult to create. Since taking a photo of a sample of material will also likely capture shininess etc...  So if you have a bitmap of the wood pattern.. you can create this look very closely with little work..


    With this diffuse map:



    you can easily get this:



    You simply use the custom material capabilities for the product you are using and make your own material.


    Joe
    Joe Dunne / Onshape, Inc.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    Thanks for the info Joe, I'll keep hunting for those plain material images..
    //rami
  • Mitch_PricerMitch_Pricer OS Professional, Developers Posts: 27 PRO
    So, is this along the lines of the quality the rest of the beta testers are getting out of OneRender? Definitely not as capable as Keyshot or just exporting and importing into Fusion 360 to render; but it seems to be the most user-friendly of the currently offered cloud solutions to me. What are the rest of your thoughts after a few weeks of testing time?

  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,466 PRO
    @Mitch_Pricer
    My results were a lot like yours (or worse).. 
    //rami
  • DriesVDriesV Member, Developers Posts: 43 ✭✭
    @kinsleymark Great to hear you like the KeyShot Connection for Onshape!
    Supporting model updates was a big focus while developing the Onshape connection.
    Product Specialist at Luxion (makers of KeyShot)
    www.keyshot.com
  • Chris_128Chris_128 Member Posts: 1
    @joe_dunne
    Excellent points about the wood grain materials.  Do you know how we can find these diffuse maps of wood grain, without shininess, bright spots, reflections etc?  How did you get the one in your example?  That looks about perfect.

    Although another challenge is that example in real life scale is probably only around 12" (305mm) long.  We often need a wood grain image large enough to cover a full size door or desk or table, around 6.5' x 3.3' (2m x 1m), with no repeats.

    Does anybody know to achieve this?
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