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CAM for sheet goods/routers, what do you want?

eric_schimelpfenigeric_schimelpfenig Member Posts: 69 EDU
Onshapers!

As you all know right now to nest/machine an Ohshape model like cabinets, sheet goods, sheet metal, etc you have to get your model out of Onshape and use a 3rd party CAM tool. If you could imagine your ideal CAM utility for Onshape what would it look like? What are some must haves, if you use another CAM tool for this sort of thing now what do you like about it, and what do you dislike about it.

Below are 3 examples of different CAD>CAM tools nesting and toolpathing complex models for sheet goods. I have my own opinions and thoughts on these, but I'm interested in hearing yours!

SketchUp/Fabber


Fusion 360


Mastercam:


@bryan_lagrange @MichaelPascoe I know you've weighed in on other discussion threads but I'd be interested in hearing you chime in here if you can spare the time.

Comments

  • MichaelPascoeMichaelPascoe Member Posts: 156 PRO
    edited December 2020
    @eric_schimelpfenig
    Onshape needs modern cam that is equally as innovative as Onshape.

    As a general scope, to do this right, you will need to:
    • Pretend you are starting from scratch and take an approach that no one else has taken. (It looks like you have a great start!) - We have smart computers now, why do I have to select: features to be machined, tools, and feeds/speeds? 
    • Be radically proactive with software improvements and customer support - Onshape is the only example I have seen like this.
  • nick_lumbnick_lumb Member Posts: 21 PRO

    My first must-have is a tool that works within Onshape but I guess that is already in the plan :smiley:
    1. I would need to specify my own machine as it is home built!
    2. If a project had different thickness boards, it would need to separate those out to different  CNC jobs
    3. For some projects, grain direction won't matter at all, but for others it will.  We need to specify grain direction for the part and the material.  To do this an option that says "align longest dimension of parts with board material grain" would be useful for the majority of cabinet parts but would need an override for specific parts where the longest dimension goes across the board grain.  This would need somehow to be specified in Onshape or remembered by Fabber as it would be tedious and error prone to spedify every time a change was made in Onshape!
    4. An ability to identify parts once cut.  For some projects, this needs to be a CAD issue with a part ID engraved into the part, but for furniture, is there a better way than a board layout drawing with the part names and counts drawn on?
    5. Job run time estimates.
  • bryan_lagrangebryan_lagrange Member, User Group Leader Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭
    From the metal cutting side, here are some items that I would look for.

    1. Full cloud enabled that works in Onshape. Have direct link so CAM updates as models update.
    2. Able to create code for the large production metal cutting manufacturers (We have Trumpf for laser, Flow for waterjet, Messer for plasma)
    3. Automatic cutting path creation (smart to etch/scribe first, cut inside geometry next, cut outside geometry last). Logical/sequential path taken from feature to feature in a part and from part to part in a nest.(Not a random path that moves all over the sheet like Fusion does).
    4. Automatic nesting of parts
    5. Automatic detection of material thickness, and type that is set in model.
    6. Grain direction, control of rotation of part in a nest
    7. Ability to ignore features such as the counter sink/Counter bore outer diameter and just cut the though hole. 
    8. Ability to set or recognize etch/scribe geometry on a part.
    9. Since Onshape does not have a dedicated sheet metal environment, it will need the ability to use the flat pattern generated by Onshape.
    10. Ability to load an assembly, the software extracts only items to be cut and discards hardware/bought items. Might need to have a property field created in the model that distinguishes this that the software can reference.
    11. Set shear paths/cuts on the sheet to run after nest is run to create drop blanks that can be used on future jobs. Primarily square/rectangle shapes.
    12. Ability to set tabs on internal geometry on a part and external geometry. Very useful when running lights out manufacturing.
    13. Ability to set curve width cuts, used in the aid of hand bending items and or relieve areas that would cause deformation of geometry during the bending process. 
    14. Common edge cutting. 

    We are not an OEM manufacture so we receive all types of files. The most common are .dxf and .dwg files of flats to cut. So the ability to work with non native Onshape 2D geometry is a plus. More information will need to be entered by the operator but .dxf and .dwg is still a standard that most 2D cutting CAM software accepts.

    Future enhancements I would say is to then provide/store/add information to other manufacturing steps such as inventory control, run time, etc. that could be connected to a companies ERP system.

    Probably will have more to add later.
    Bryan Lagrange
    Twitter: @BryanLAGdesign

  • eric_schimelpfenigeric_schimelpfenig Member Posts: 69 EDU
    Thanks @MichaelPascoe @bryan_lagrange and @nick_lumb this is fantastic.

    I'd love to dig into some of those specific features (and I will for sure!) but let me ask you a couple high level questions:

    Of these three which do you think you could envision yourself using? And for this answer use your imagination a little bit. I don't think any of these solutions are perfect right now, in fact some can't even work with Onshape at all.. But what you can see in each of these is the way they envision the workflow. Some are more complex than others, and some are dead simple. So if one of these were massaged to include some, if not all of your feature requests which one would it be?

    And for a more specific question: If you look in the Onshape app store under CAM: https://appstore.onshape.com/apps/CAM?sort=featured

    You'll see save for KiriMoto the rest of the options are just connectors for desktop apps. How important is having something that's cloud based and really "built in" to Onshape?

    And last one: Did any of your try and use VisualCAM C when it was on the app store, if so, thoughts?


  • bryan_lagrangebryan_lagrange Member, User Group Leader Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭
    Of the 3, if they were equal in bells and whistles, I would go with Fabber. Simple, logical steps that can easily be used by all CAM users no matter their skill level to obtain code. 

    Example: Our operators of the cutting machines create the code to run the job. When they are out due to illness, vacation, or in these times ,stuck in quarantine, we need to keep the machines going. With our current CAM software if you have not used it much there is a high learning curve just to generate code for a simple part. The approach you have with Fabber looks logical, user friendly, and the knowledge to run it can be easily retained no matter if you use it every day or once a quarter. That is one key aspect we are looking for in a CAM software.

    It being cloud based and hopefully connected to Onshape will allow someone to generate CAM code no matter where they are. If for example in quarantine and stuck to work at home I could design at home and then generate code for the machine. With a simple e-mail to the link of the Onshape document, the operator can access the code, download it and keep the machine running. 

    I could see accessing Fabber in Onshape similar to the attached image.



    Bryan Lagrange
    Twitter: @BryanLAGdesign

  • eric_schimelpfenigeric_schimelpfenig Member Posts: 69 EDU
    That's a great mockup @bryan_lagrange. That's how I would envision it would work too, it would be a slide over panel like the configuration variables. I'd also like to see it as a tab, so you could treat it like you'd treat an assembly... Sort of an instance of a thing you'd make.

    For Fabber on we're obviously trying to make it as easy to use as possible in a shop, ands your use case is definitely one we've thought of... Letting a designer/engineer setup not only the model, but the feeds/speeds/cutting strategy for a model so that can be shared as a preset of sorts to people running the machines. 

    In the current situation the world is in, in theory this means that someone like your self could setup jobs and have a small crew head into the shop and make them...

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