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A problem getting transform in part studio to produce anything
christopher_johnson425
Member Posts: 5 ✭
Hello Folks, the question says it all. I don’t know what I’m missing, but
I’ve get about 12 hours into trying any and every combination of modes and entities to configure the function, and not one single combination has generated any output. I simply cannot believe that the function is flat dead, it’s just way too important to allow that situation to stand. I should say that I am new to modeling and to Onshape, but I’ve about 200 hours into learning so far. I’m relatively accustomed to how the program flows.
My goal is to put a derived sketch on its own plane, and then be able to copy it to multiple locations in a new sketch on a different plane. I wan’t to use mate connectors in the source sketch and align the copies of the derived sketch with mate connectors in the target sketch.
I’ve exhausted the online help system and google as best I can. I hope someone can help me out.
Thanks!
Answers
You can't transform a sketch with the built in tools. You can place a sketch at a mate connector, which makes it easy to move around, or you can convert the sketch to a surface, and use the transform feature on that.
Simon Gatrall | Product Development, Engineering, Design, Onshape | Ex- IDEO, PCH, Unagi, Carbon | LinkedIn
The "native" transform doesn't support sketches…
A simple option would be to use an offset surface and to derive this instead of your sketch, assuming your sketch is made of closed contours.
It would help to know what you intend to do next with these copies of the sketches… If your are going to extrude or whatever after, patterning the solid or feature is almost always a better option…
Otherwise it seems like the transform pattern FS is what you need (and it does support sketches in the "feature" mode):
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/25a0a6dfaa76e64574a5e0db/v/8217d6d96ccc324b8dd86160/e/4c62c06c4e0e4db3703a2d4c?jumpToIndex=1735
If you prepare before you derive, you can do it with mate connectors.
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/71d5e4e2a529d10c9f21c33b/w/63ae1e09fd79231aa0f8431c/e/6b730cccfa7fdc2148098f25?renderMode=0&uiState=6998289f7eb85900d1ec5eac
Thanks Folks!
‘My original intent was to use a derived sketch, located on its own plane. Once located, it would be copied (transformed) to four locations on a top level sketch, using mate connectors to locate the derived drawing and the four target locations. athe documentation, including Google, says transform will do this, but it doesn’t. I can locate the derived sketch where-ever I chose, including on another plane.
My work-around became to put the derived sketch, using mate connectors, at the x,y coordinates of the desired first copy, just on its own plane. Then I used “use” to duplicate the derived sketch into a sketch on a new plane used for all four copies. That done, I can mirror the first entity over to the second, and then the first and second over to the third and fourth. This works.
To make all this work, I put a “source” mate connector over the origin of the first, root sketch. This worked properly in the derived sketch to cause the source center to be located at the desired destination offset.
Now that I’ve gotten this far, I want to do an entervening derived sketch so I can do some more mechanical development after the first mirror step, but before mirroring the one and two parts over to the third and fourth. The plan is to put a “source” mate connector at the origin of the sketch containing the one and two parts so that I again have an easy way to locate a derivation of that sketch onto a plane for all four parts.
But now I have a new problem, or, actually, two new problems. First, in the original source sketch the mate connector configuration correctly picked up the sketch entity as the location, the mate connector configuration for the second level sketch refuses to use the sketch when selecting the origin as the location of the mate connector. Anywhere else on the drawing works just fine, but, when using the origin, the configuration selects the plane as the location of mate connector, not the sketch. Unfortunately, once selected, the system says it can’t resolve it. So, how do I get a functioning coordinate equivalent to 0,0?
Secondly, just trying things out, I moved the MC to a variety of different points on the source sketch. No matter where I put it though, it never comes over with the derived sketch. There is no MC listed in the feature list under the derivation. This is necessary to not only determine the x,y, but to be able to specify the target plane.
Thanks for the help!
What is the goal after making all these sketches?
Thanks Guys,
Basically, I have done what you have proposed. Per the various information locations, I created a new plane for the derived root sketch, put a sketch MC at the origin of the root sketch, put another sketch MC on a new sketch at the desired offset and that has the new plane as its owner.
This all came off nicely. Because of the way the part is built, I was able to mirror the part to get the rest of the drawing. Great!
I suppose I should give you an idea of what I’m trying to do. The application is an intake manifold for a V8 engine that has four two-barrel downdraft carburetors mounted to it. I’m going to model it from the engine all the way up to the air cleaners. Right now I’m working on the face between the carbs and manifold. These carbs have two 2-bolt oval flanges that mate to the manifold, and use two identical gaskets. So, the intent is to do a root drawing of a single flange. This will serve as the basis for a gasket model, and for another sketch that will act as a basis for the double- flanged carb base and the manifold connection. That second level sketch will be derived into a sketch that will add bosses to the manifold flange so there is a raised reinforced place to install bolts to actually bolt down the carburetor. I’m not working on it yet, but that second level sketch of the double flange shape will feed into a third level sketch for the carburetor body.
At the other end of the intake runners there will be a similar situation with gaskets and flanges and bosses. These flanges are angled in the same direction though, so I won’t be able to use “mirror’’ to generate them. At some point I’m going to have to figure out how to do a transform without a transform tool.
So, having successfully generated and located and mirrored a second level drawing, I happily go about trying to generate a third level drawing. And I run into more big problems. First, it is my intent to have the origin be the center of any drawing that has multiples of any entity. That’s the only way I know how to make all the dimensioning make any sense. Unfortunately, unlike the root drawing, I can’t put a mate connector at the origin location of the sketch. Literally anywhere else on the sketch will accept a MC, but not at the origin. At the origin, the MC configuration insists on selecting the plane, not the sketch, as the location for the MC. That’s all fine and dandy except that the configurator says it can’t resolve it when you allow it to select the plane. So that doesn’t work.
Just to play with it some more, I went ahead and put the MC on a vertex in the drawing since the system seemed content with that. I justed wanted to prove that I really did understand how to move things around. No luck here either! (yes, I did update the revision and pull it in). The MC is not coming over with the derived drawing. It’s not even in the feature list under the “derive”. So that doesn’t work either.
Please help! My head is bloody from banging it on the wall too much. How do you guys make complex and sophisticated drawings without these sorts of basic tools?
TIA,
Chris
Hi @christopher_johnson425 ,
well, it appears we just wouldn't follow a 'drawing' approach, but rather a 'modeling' approach.
From what I understood from your description, the manifold you are attempting has several positioned elements that partly repeat, partly mirror, like flanges. We would most probaly just model one each, where they could exist individually in their own part studio, or all in one multi part studio. Then, we would place a copy of the 3D part at the appropriate location by either deriving them there or by patterning/mirroring. That would leave us with something maybe like this ….
… and would eliminate all the efforts you are currently making with placing the copied sketches and put us in a situation where we would have one place to edit each flange type, as well as their placement on the engine in a parametric manner and we'd "only" have to connect the different flanges in space by a collection of spliny-curvy tube things to create the manifold.
If you have some basic geometry and are willing to share, post them here and we'll see what can be done.
I haven't studied in detail what the issue is but it sounds to me like a reset of your approach and a a study on how programs like onshape are designed to work and help design things. It sounds like you are going at it backwards maybe? 2D to 3D? Where the program is meant be 3D and your 2D is a bi product. There's a lotta mention of "drawings" in your messages, where you should only be sketching basic features and modeling. Save the drawings for the end. If you haven't yet done any tutorials at learn.onshape.com,… highly recommended.
Yes, go through the basics and get your self oriented to 3d modeling. Copying/transforming sketches is just a lot of work and makes errors in the copies. Each sketch has to be updated individually. Transform is a good tool but you're using at the wrong level. https://learn.onshape.com/?hostDomain=cad
Attached is a sample using the assembly for multiple parts. You can also produce copies of the parts in a part studio only using arrays and mirrors if the project is not too complex but you'll have to track quantity of parts manually. Arrays and mirrors are in the assembly environment as well.
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/33c8fc8e55338d14da84ba87/w/9fa8b5a293e1de80d96269ba/e/f4b6ea8eadf4a1ada2bd22c5
Don't spend a lot of time looking at the details in this sample(they're s…). This sample is to look at methods to set up like the initial sketches. Sketches can use implied points on curves for origin and working plane.