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cloud hardware

scottyvoidscottyvoid Member Posts: 8
just wondering if your compuuters hardware has any impact on cloud based systems such as onshape. for example will a nice graphics card or cpu have any impact. or can everyone just go get the cheapest computer possible and be on the same level as someone running a 10k machine. 
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Comments

  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broadly speaking, your concluding statement is true. The speed of the internet connection is important, and possibly the distance from Onshape's servers... 
  • traveler_hauptmantraveler_hauptman Member, OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 419 PRO
    If I'm not mistaken, a good vs bad graphics card will have exactly the same effect on Onshape as desktop CAD. They are still both pumping the same triangles to the screen.
  • scottyvoidscottyvoid Member Posts: 8
    so if i understand correctly then graphics card does have a influence on the performance of onshape. so then there would be some recommended system requirements that would run onshape at a premium rate 
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2015
    hmmm... that sounds plausible, except .... my $195 Chromebook whips my $5000 Dell Precision (mobile workstation) laptop with the nVidia industrial-strength graphics card (it probably helps that the Chromebook is a few years newer) ...

    The only way I can make sense of this is that modern graphics processors -- even at the low end where they're mounted on the motherboard, sharing machine RAM -- are pretty capable for the demands Onshape makes.

    It's going to be interesting to see the effect on Onshape's in-browser performance, of loading the sort of large, complex assembly which reduces the blazing speed of Solidworks et al -- even on the lastest workstation-grade desktop machine -- to a whimpering and humiliating halt....

    That's a hell of a tall order, it seems to me, for something running in a tab on a generic browser ... and a lot hangs on it.
  • michał_1michał_1 Member, Developers Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Hi guys, I'm afraid Chromebook may replace decent workstation only on a small files. Your graphic card still need to display tessellated model, and at some point weak card will crash. I would like to see Onshape team releasing their own web browser, as a separate product to not interfering with overall policy.
    Dedicated browser could utilise more efficiently webGL, memory and other resources. For example that would allow to setup new key mapping.
    On my laptop (just dell inspiron) I get crash after making pattern of 400 bolts with threads. In general Onshape those need some computing power on your machine.


  • matthew_menardmatthew_menard Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    Is there currently any way to benchmark different machines and/or browsers for OnShape performance?  Also, would the advantages of using  Quadro or FirePro cards be lessened in comparison to their Geforce / Radeon counterparts?  I know Solidworks doesn't like the gaming cards, but I assume OnShape won't care.  I was looking into workstation laptops to run SW on, but my excitement for OS has lessened my interest.  Now, I'm lost as to what I should be looking for to get the most out of OS. 
  • traveler_hauptmantraveler_hauptman Member, OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 419 PRO
    @matthew_menard  Performance statistics can be brought up by hitting CTRL+D while you have a model open.


  • michael3424michael3424 Member Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭
    @matthew_menard  Performance statistics can be brought up by hitting CTRL+D while you have a model open.


    Neat trick, but n Chrome, that also bookmarks your model page - is there a way to avoid that?
  • matthew_menardmatthew_menard Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    @matthew_menard  Performance statistics can be brought up by hitting CTRL+D while you have a model open.


    Neat trick, but n Chrome, that also bookmarks your model page - is there a way to avoid that?
    Looks like Firefox does the same thing.  Quickly looking, I might be able to change the keybinding with an extension, but I would prefer not to do that.  Cool info and statistics though.
  • jared_conwayjared_conway Member, Developers Posts: 2
    have their been any updates on a set of minimum system requirements?

    i've been trying onshape on some virtual machines and without a GPU and with limited CPU/RAM onshape is a bit of a dog.
  • teddy_pessagnoteddy_pessagno Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    @scottyvoid ,
    I have 5 older computers and only one works with Onshape.
    I found this thread very helpful. Especially the post from @john_rousseau
    https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/389/graphics-card-article

    Thanks
    Teddy_P
  • awkawk Member, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 78
    Onshape's browser client does require that WebGL work and have a degree of performance and features. That's not too difficult to achieve with a pretty broad range of physical hardware - even cheaper chrome books etc. and (some) quite old machines.

    However many Virtual Machine platforms don't provide any sort of hardware accelerated graphics capability to the guest VMs - and if there's no hardware accelerated graphics Chrome & Firefox will not enable their built in WebGL support (this can be overridden with advanced config settings in the browsers but the performance is likely to be very poor).

    I've personally found that I can use both Windows 8 & Linux VMs in VMware Fusion 7 & 8 - I expect similar recent releases of VMware Workstation are OK too. For other VM platforms - particularly those that are shared amongst multiple users like ESX or Xen it's much more challenging to provide hardware accelerated graphics to the guests.

    Director of API, Appstore, and App Partner Technical Support
  • don_howedon_howe Member Posts: 115 ✭✭✭
    I'm running on a 10yr old Dell 9100 64bit, dual core pentium. The only upgrade I had to make with my machine was a new graphics card as my old ATI Radeon was not webGL capable. I spent about $60 on a PNY GT730. I have the standard internet connection and I haven't noticed any real slow downs or problems. I'm pretty pleased with the performance of my old machine. I would say my machine is at the lower end of the spectrum in terms of system requirements. I get about the same performance from my old Dell as compared to my Dell T3500 workstation I use at work.
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    @don_howe Your Dell T3500 workstation has which graphics card?  I suspect it's not that much different than the newer and much cheaper PNY GT730.  Workstation cards were always completely un-impressive from a computation per cost standpoint.  Time was spent on drivers to support OpenGL Cad platforms, and then they charged a large profit margin to a small but captive market.  People assumed because they paid a lot for a graphics card that it must be a real computational workhorse.  Not the case.  Now that Onshape doesn't need that, I think you'll find cheaper cards will perform either just as well, or even much better depending on what you have and had.
  • teddy_pessagnoteddy_pessagno Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Well now I might pick up a new cheep graphics card. Ever thing I have read says Onshape should work but it never loads a document. I was leaning towards the old processor for being the reason it does not work.

    Thanks
    Teddy_P

  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    @teddy_pessagno The model computation for the feature tree is being handled on AWS servers, if I'm not mistaken... so your local CPU is not really the hotpoint.  Local graphics is a different story.  Depending on what you are working with as far as a model data set, a better equipped graphics card that is unrestrained by memory limitations is the way forward. 
  • teddy_pessagnoteddy_pessagno Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Thanks @pete_yodis . One of the things that threw me off was that I tested the WebGL and OpenGL (to the best of my knowledge) and they passed.
    I think I will try a new graphics card. I never have a problem with Blender and that is the only other 3D program I play with.


    Thanks
    Teddy_P


     
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,470 PRO
    http://www.fishgl.com/ can be used to test web gl performance. Graphics card, amount of RAM and speed together with network speed are key things to flawless Onshaping.
    //rami
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    I tend to think the network speed is not as important.  My own mileage seems to correspond with my bias there.  On large data sets that may be a different story.
  • matthew_menardmatthew_menard Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    I tend to think the network speed is not as important.  My own mileage seems to correspond with bias there.  On large data sets that may be a different story.
    There is a distinct performance difference between using OnShape at my house and work.  My house has at least acceptable internet speed, at about 30-50mbps per speedtest.  However, my work has internet that feels like it's out of the mid 90s (speedtest clocks in at between 1 and 3mbps).  Opening documents and switching between tabs is painful at work, where at home it is much quicker.  Once documents are open, performance is about equal, but I can't imagine going into and out of OS documents like I do with our current drafting package as it stands currently.
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    Thanks @matthew_menard Are the data sets large that you are working with?  Sounds like your employer needs to speed things up a bit, too.
  • don_howedon_howe Member Posts: 115 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    pete_yodis, I don't know what the graphics card is on my T3500. I will have to check tomorrow when I go in. I didn't get a very expensive video card because I'm planing to upgrade my home pc anyway and really only wanted something as a band-aid. I didn't think $60 was bad deal.  Out of the box the GT730 did not do webGL, I had to download and install the latest drivers. My reasoning for contributing to this post was to let other know all you might need for your old machine is new card and not a very expensive one.

    I just did an internet speed test here at home and my upload was 3.54mbps and download 1.25mbps. I don't have trouble manipulating models. Where I notice a lag is when I dimension drawings. Typically I have to wait to input the dimension or I'll get 75 inches instead of 3/4 inches.

    -----edited------

    Nvidia Quadro 4000
    12GB RAM
    Xeon CPU w3670 @ 3.20GHz, 3200 Mhz, 6 core
    Win 7 Ultimate




  • teddy_pessagnoteddy_pessagno Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Had a chance to play with a Chromebook tonight. I like it a lot. The chromebox might be something to check into.

    Teddy_P
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,470 PRO
    edited September 2015
    don_howe said:
    .. Typically I have to wait to input the dimension or I'll get 75 inches instead of 3/4 inches.



    I have 90+Mbit in/out (at least a quarter of that depending on server location) and I'm suffering this same issue. It is annoying, cloud or not certain workflows need to be flawless.
    //rami
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We're told the drawing performance issues are recognised by the folk at Onshape and will be addressed, but it concerns me that the drawings package, at time of release into public beta, still fell so far short of being usable for real work that: 

    users may be discouraged from submitting essential feedback (by the sheer number of missing or deficient capabilities, and/or because they avoid using it altogether)

    or may simply be inclined to write drawings off for some time to come, which would represent a reputational hit for the entire package.
  • matthew_menardmatthew_menard Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    Thanks @matthew_menard Are the data sets large that you are working with?  Sounds like your employer needs to speed things up a bit, too.
    Not too large.  At work, it's just mainly bringing up some of the public models to show the capability of a browser based CAD system.  Unfortunately, our internet is a product of the corporate intranet that everything gets bounced around the country and finally funneled through to us. 
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,470 PRO
    Dimension issue happens also in sketch mode. I don't mind if there is some 50ms delay but it shouldn't show in cutting input ie. if I write 750 only 50 goes to dialog.
    //rami
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    Thanks @matthew_menard Are the data sets large that you are working with?  Sounds like your employer needs to speed things up a bit, too.
    Not too large.  At work, it's just mainly bringing up some of the public models to show the capability of a browser based CAD system.  Unfortunately, our internet is a product of the corporate intranet that everything gets bounced around the country and finally funneled through to us. 
    Sounds like a lovely system they have there.  Pull it up on your ipad, iphone, or android phone next to the desktop one connected through the maze that you've got there.  Might do 2 things... impress them with how well it functions on your personal device, and not impress them with your corporate network ;)
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Had a chance to play with a Chromebook tonight. I like it a lot. The chromebox might be something to check into.

    Teddy_P
    @teddy_pessagnoYou would probably be happy with anything mildly new.  Staples, Best Buy, Apple Store, etc.. are all great places to log into your Onshape account and try things out on all their devices for sale.  Have fun!
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    don_howe said:
     My reasoning for contributing to this post was to let other know all you might need for your old machine is new card and not a very expensive one.

    @don_howe I think you are spot on with your assessment.  Onshape really shouldn't need much on the hardware side of things to perform pretty well with models.  Graphics and memory are the biggest requirements on the local side of things, but they are not hefty needs.  You are not loading the full model into your local RAM.. that is all handled on the AWS side of things.  You are loading the graphics of the model into memory on the local end of things.  Big difference between the two.
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