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Why can't I get along with orbiting in Onshape?
øyvind_kaurstad
Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
Ok, this is probably stupid, but bear with a newbie.
I am new to professional CAD applications (counting Onshape in that category), but I have used plenty of other 3D applications, like Sketchup. Usually when orbiting a model with the mouse, it behaves intuitively.
However, in Onshape I always end up with a position/angle/tilt that I don't want, and to fix it I have to either choose a specific plane, or fiddle a lot with the mouse to get it back to how I want.
Does anyone understand what I mean? What is different with orbiting in Onshape compared to other applications?
I am new to professional CAD applications (counting Onshape in that category), but I have used plenty of other 3D applications, like Sketchup. Usually when orbiting a model with the mouse, it behaves intuitively.
However, in Onshape I always end up with a position/angle/tilt that I don't want, and to fix it I have to either choose a specific plane, or fiddle a lot with the mouse to get it back to how I want.
Does anyone understand what I mean? What is different with orbiting in Onshape compared to other applications?
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Best Answer
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andrew_troup
Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
Currently you can correct the tilt as mentioned earlier (pick edge, RMB "Align view with vertical axis" but I realise this is more tedious than you would prefer,.øyvind_kaurstad said:... This is cumbersome and error-prone, because unless you do it with extreme precision, you will still end up with s very slight tilt in some direction.
...
and here's my suggestions
1) I raised a feedback ticket a while back proposing that "Align view with vertical axis" NOT require selection of an edge or sketch line: if there is no selection made, simply remove any tilt from the view by evaluating whichever of x, y or z is currently nearest to vertical, and making it vertical. (the name of the command is already well suited for that upgrade.)
An added problem with the present command is that it cannot be used for models which don't happen to have a straight, vertical edge. Some of these will have a vertical sketch line which can be used instead, but first the user has to hunt it down and make it visible (and then select it).
2) to allow the user the option to prevent the model tilting in the first place, I would like to see a further option, called something like "Keep verticals vertical'. This would provide turntable rotation. Despite two decades of muscle memory habituation from the likes of Solidworks, I would personally use this a lot. Especially when setting up named views or printing screen grabs, or just pondering proportions and "the look" of a design.
And when using a trackpad !6
Answers
The MCAD convention makes it easier to rotate parts in the plane of the screen while manipulating, and if this is not desired behaviour, you can pick an edge after the manipulation and RMB "Align view with vertical axis"
Here's a tip to minimise the need for this extra step, and avoid queasiness due to unwanted tilt:
As an illustrative step: a user wanting to informally rotate in the plane of the screen while "orbiting" using the right mouse button, would move the mouse in a circle with that button held down. The part will rotate in the opposite sense, progressively (while wobbling/nutating). The larger the circle radius, the quicker the counter-rotation.
Once a user becomes adept at and aware of this non-obvious behavioural linkage, the consciousness gets unconsciously incorporated into ordinary orbiting so as to keep vertical lines approximately vertical, when that's the desired behaviour.
One reason, for sure, is the one he raises: trying to peer through a thicket of machine elements in a top level assembly of a large project, with oblique sightlines, in order to viddy a couple of entities to mate, can certainly require some funky (ie non-turntable) orbiting.
A simpler example would be modelling a long skinny beam (say a weldment based on a steel rectangular hollow section) with connection details around all four faces at each end. In order to move from one face to another while still being able to (say) access sketch entities at the far end of the beam, will require rotating the model roughly but not exactly in the plane of the screen.
Play around with that one for a while.
With the turntable type scheme, you'll find yourself panning things into place after a zoom in. It's different. I do like the smoothness of the example I just linked to. There is something nice about it, and it feels a little more predictable and intuitive to me. I wonder if at some point, there could be view rotation scheme options. Different strokes for different folks.
I haven't noticed this earlier, but I work mostly in office and with 3d mouse..
I do notice the repeated rotation issue with the model walking. I'll look some more tonight. I have both large (5 acre size) and small models to look at it.
Perhaps the current style works better with a 3D mouse than with a ordinary mouse? I don't have the former so I couldn't say, but with a normal mouse I clearly prefer the Sketchfab style that pete_yodis linked to. I just feels more intuitive, at least for me that doesn't have previous MCAD experience.
With regards to rotation scheme... there could be intelligent ways of changing the scheme based on the model and the current zoom state in the model. Not sure it would be consistent enough or feel natural enough - just spit balling a bit.
Are the models you are working with large or small? Are they symmetric? After experimenting a bit more; I notice on one of my models that has an odd geometric balance to it, that the rotation feels most un-natural. It is not a walking thing as I mentioned earlier, just something that feels odd sometimes and I need an extra correction to get to the position/orientation that I am after. On a very large model, the rotation feels pretty good. Try looking at a bunch of public models of varying size and shape and see if it feels different. Also, I notice that circle with a cross hair seems to be the center of rotation. That gives you clues to how the center of rotation is being determined as you begin to rotate it.
I have tested se, sw, inventor, vertex and bunch of cheap cads and mainly worked with alibre/geomagic and onshape - I have no complains on view manipulation. I'm using traditional mouse at home, 3d mouse at work, chromebook trackpad when traveling and ipad/android touchscreen in meetings.
To be honest I have difficulties to understand what's the problem with Ons view manipulation (there has been few threads about this earlier too)?
@3dcad: To illustrate the problem, try selecting the isometric view when looking at a model. Then drag with the right mouse button to the
right (i.e horizontally), thereby rotating the view. Now the object ends up tilted to the right, but what I really wanted was that the vertical lines of the front plane actually was vertical (like they were in the isometric view before dragging) on screen. Not tilted to the right.
I do get that many people probably want it this way, but it shouldn't be too difficult for Onshape to implement functionality to let the users choose orbiting style.
It feels quite natural to and I fear that what is being requested is something that I will not be comfortable with. I certainly hope that if a change is made that it will be an option.
I spent some time this weekend on one particular model of mine and compared the rotate in Onshape to the same model in SolidWorks 2009. The rotate in Onshape did in fact wobble/walk on me compared to the model rotate in SolidWorks. It's different in Onshape, but I'd argue that difference isn't a good thing at the moment. It's a also minor nit pick, but for someone with muscle memory from long term use of a very popular MCAD package - it comes off feeling just the slightest bit odd. It may not be immediately apparent, but it's one of those things in the background that consumes a little too much thought on a very foundational level with the product. I have used Onshape enough that the rotate with the right mouse button, rather than the middle mouse button is pretty much second nature to me - but I still notice the rotate being what I feel is slightly off. The model is one where it's not symmetric. It's closer to symmetric with one area that is not at all. I'm wondering if that particular geometry is affecting the view rotate scheme just enough.
I find that unless I want to end up with a tilted view, I need to first drag upwards to make the top plane horizontal, and then I can drag right to rotate the model, and then I must drag a little bit downwards again. This is cumbersome and error-prone, because unless you do it with extreme precision, you will still end up with s very slight tilt in some direction.
With my preferred orbit style, a simple right drag would do the same, no fuss.
Again, I understand that many of you prefer the current style, and I'm not asking to have that changed, I'd just like to have the option to choose what in my opinion is a better way, at least for people not used to the SW style.
I haven't ever thought about how I move model with mouse. It seems like a lot of movement begins with moving mouse first to upper left then back to desired angle.
I find that I can manipulate the model best by placing the mouse in the upper corner of the area outside my model - say the upper left. The view rotate seems to behave a bit better that way. You would then move the mouse down to the right as if you were moving towards the center of mass of the model. I notice SolidWorks seems to work better when I am placing my mouse near the center of mass of the model and rotating... almost the opposite. I wonder if some additional damping on the view manipulation would be helpful as well. I don't know if that changes with the browser you are using. I need to do some more experimenting...
By the way... FireFox is my browser of choice at the moment because the gain on the zoom using the scrollwheel on the mouse is much higher than with Chrome.
When I'm actually working in office, I use 3d mouse.
I used firefox earlier because of the scroll speed, after 3d mouse support I switched to chrome.
and here's my suggestions
1) I raised a feedback ticket a while back proposing that "Align view with vertical axis" NOT require selection of an edge or sketch line: if there is no selection made, simply remove any tilt from the view by evaluating whichever of x, y or z is currently nearest to vertical, and making it vertical. (the name of the command is already well suited for that upgrade.)
An added problem with the present command is that it cannot be used for models which don't happen to have a straight, vertical edge. Some of these will have a vertical sketch line which can be used instead, but first the user has to hunt it down and make it visible (and then select it).
2) to allow the user the option to prevent the model tilting in the first place, I would like to see a further option, called something like "Keep verticals vertical'. This would provide turntable rotation. Despite two decades of muscle memory habituation from the likes of Solidworks, I would personally use this a lot. Especially when setting up named views or printing screen grabs, or just pondering proportions and "the look" of a design.
And when using a trackpad !
I've had this for ages:
And few months ago bought this:
I'm really enjoying working with it, partly because new stuff always cheer me up but also because it's actually making me more productive and helps me get things done in tight schedule.
I don't need to travel with it so I have cords but if you connect to a laptop you might wan't to consider the wireless version (I didn't consider that since I hate running out of batteries
I took also their cad mouse on same delivery and the separate middle button has been very useful in many programs. Scroll could be better though.