Rotating with mouse issue

ts_2

The behavior of rotating has me all confused.  It just doesnt work the same way like most programs I use.  I can best descibe it and "Wobbly" and " disorienting"  Always has a feeling like I'm turning the camera upsidedown the more and more I use the mouse. To put it bluntly, its aweful waffle. Is there an option or setting that can default it so regular mouse rotating that keeps things level to my eye.?

pete_yodis

@Ts What browser are you running?

ts_2

Firefox

ts_2

The rotation behavior feels more like a feature and not a bug.

nada_nix

@Ts, I'm copying over your comment from the "feature requests" thread:
Ts said: The mouse rotation behavior drives me up the wall.  Everything feels topsy turvey like its spinning on too many axises when I move the mouse around.  Often I feel like I'm just fighting the camera, and swirling my mouse around to upright my view.  Don't know if that's a CAD standard, but every other program I use does it different.  Blender, Tinkercad, 3dsmax, maya.   Maybe take a look at how mouse behavior works there and at least provide the option to use it that way.
I also find the way Onshape does mouse rotation frustrating, I'm not used to it. At first I was also trying to move the mouse pointer around in a circle in an attempt to get the model upright again. When the model gets rolled over on its side, there's no obvious way to stand it up straight again. I found the trick is to move the mouse sideways and spin the model 90 degrees, then move it up or down to get it upright, then sideways again to get back to what you were looking at.

The other thing to watch out for is that if you start your rotate with the mouse pointer somewhere on the model, it will use that as the center of rotation. Click on the white part of the page to use the center of the model. I end up using the rotation tool in the top right a lot, to get back to a standard view. You can also use shift-number keys 1-7 for standard views.

There are many different ways that mouse rotation can work. Some CAD software does it the way Onshape does, most 3D graphics applications don't. Many of them give you a choice of different styles, as a preferences setting, and the better ones allow you to easily use multiple methods. The roll, pitch, and yaw axes of the rotation can be relative to the plane of your monitor screen the way Onshape is, or it can be constrained onto the xyz planes of the model's world, or the ground plane can be fixed and never allowed to turn sideways (turntable mode). You can pan/tilt/zoom the camera, and walk or fly like a character in a video game. One of the most popular and useful is the trackball/arcball method. Personally I find Onshape's way the least desirable of them all, but again I'm not used to traditional CAD software.

spiked3

short rant;  The single reason Windows was a success was that cut copy paste worked the same in the early applications; mostly office. That fact alone is what lead to Microsoft office dominance and the accompanying windows dominance, and the adoption of cut copy paste in nearly every piece of software made since then. Until now, unfortunately it works in some browser software, and not others.  Then there is 3D manipulation. I switch between 5 or 6 3D software programs, and guess how many use unique gestures to manipulate?  If you said 5 or 6, you nailed it. This is the source of 99% of my time consuming errors.  How easy it is to miss the simple smart things.

nada_nix

@Spiked3, you might think about buying a 3D space mouse. It's supported by nearly every 3D program (unfortunately not Onshape yet), and gives you a much more consistent interface across them all. 

3dcad

I like the way OS turns things, you can easily turn model while zoomed in for some small face without losing your point of interest..
I'm used to Geomagic and I can't even tell how it's different even though there is something different. Im using 3Dconnexion but also mouse for turning models.

There's nothing difficult or wrong in the way OS works, zooming could be faster - but these things can be tweaked when basic settings find their places.

aaron_digulla

I have the same issue on Linux with Chrome. The rotation doesn't always follow my "trackball" expectation. As I move the mouse, the image rotates around all three axis, instead of only two. To reproduce:

If you move the mouse just vertically or only horizontally, then you can return the view to the state where you started by simply backtracking your movement. This works as I feel it should.

But when you move on both axis, the view seems to rotate around the axis perpendicular to the screen as well (Z, if you start with the "Top" view). The model "rolls". After a few of those movements, I have to click on one of the two "arc arrows" in the top right corner to upright my view again.

bergdesign

I've hounded Jesse and Joe a bit about the lack of this exact feature... They need to implement the "Rotate about scene floor" option from SolidWorks so that the view doesn't roll when you rotate it. Many of us prefer to have the view pitch and yaw, but not roll because it is disorienting and wastes time to correct. All the 3D modelers like modo, Cinema 4D, SketchUp and SolidWorks have or have added this feature because it just makes sense when modeling real-world objects. 

andrew_troup

I'm puzzled by this discussion. On the machines where I've run OnS,  the rotation works the same way as Solidworks, Solid Edge, et al. If I move the mouse diagonally, the model spins about all three axes, as I would expect. If I track back along the exact same diagonal, the model comes back to where it started.

If I am sloppy on the diagonal, so that in one direction I curve one side of a straight trail, and in the other I curve to the other side, I *do* get the model 'rolling' (ie rotating in the plane of the display) slightly, so that it does not quite maintain the original orientation.

This does tend to accumulate over time, for bio-mechanical reasons, and the model can end up with the verticals no longer vertical.

I've got a ticket #3088 with OnS for a single-click "Make verticals vertical" command, where the edges currently closest to vertical are made precisely vertical, for screen-grabs and the like - but this is a more finely tuned solution, not intended for gross problems.
Some of the commenters here are asking for "KEEP verticals vertical", and I would personally like to see that being an option, rather than the only behaviour. It can be very handy being able to induce roll: you might be working on a long loft which is at an odd angle, and you need to be able to have both end profiles on the display at the same time.

Most every hoary old Solidworks user has learned to correct the gross roll orientation very simply: just hold down the RMB and move your mouse in circles. The model will roll in the opposite direction. Use larger circles for faster roll.

TonyNo

I also agree with the OP.

andrew_troup

After further thought on this question, I think I want to change sides and support the OP

I'm not sure I can see a benefit for the Solidworks behaviour which is sufficient to compensate for the disorientation.
I haven't used a package which keeps verticals vertical, but I think it would be preferable, and I'm sure we would quickly adjust.

The times you need to induce roll, which I mentioned in my last post: that (I now think) would be handled better if the arrows around the view cube would permit bursts of analogue rotation when a modifier key was held down.
ON EDIT: might be simpler and better for this to happen (for all the arrows around the cube) if the RMB were held down over them

Rolling for the purposes I describe never has to be accurate, whereas "keeping verticals vertical" very much does.

I'm against deviating from a highly evolved package unless there's a better way, but it makes no sense to adhere to the legacy when there is. I don't think OnS should pander to "hoary old Solidworks users", on sober reflection.

And I've gone off the whole idea of making behaviours like this customisable. I think it would result in a confusing mish-mash, when collaborative sessions were underway, with several modellers working at the same time using the same window and behaviour. When it comes to keyboard customisations, I don't see a problem*, except that the "Tooltips" might give the correct prompt only for the user who owns (or launched?) the model.

* the keystrokes would be interpreted according to which user generated them. Easy peasy (as everything is, except for the poor so and so who has to code it)

3dcad

What about having key to 'lock' rolling?
Would work for me, actually sometimes I would like to 'turntable' my models but I could press button during this - or toggle on/off.

Edit:
Or even better (not for chromebooks) press LMB and RMB together to turn without rolling. Geomagic Design uses both buttons as default turning and it's been working good.

CaptainBisquick

There are two types of standard behavior in 3D modeling packages: trackball and turn-table.

With turn-table, you can't flip the camera upside down, unless you pitch the object down far enough that you go over the top (or the other direction, under the bottom), and end up on the other side, at which point you're stuck upside down. Orienting the view at a 90° roll is impossible with turn-table. Also, some applications prevent pitch angles past 90° up and 90° down, so you can never get the camera upside down.

With trackball, the farther the mouse is from the center of the viewport, the more it influences the roll angle. Some people don't like the feel of this, but trackball allows any angle to be accessed, and once you realize that click-dragging near the perimeter rolls the view, I find that it becomes quite intuitive.

It seems that OnShape currently has neither of these functionalities, and needs both of them. Personally I really need trackball.

Skippy

I have found it behaves unpredictably at times and everything ends up on an angle. The rotate arrows around the view cube in the top right dont always get it back easily either.

I dont dislike the way the camera handles but sometimes I find myself wishing for something to click to straighten everything up without altering my camera view in any other way. 

Spiked3 said:

short rant;  The single reason Windows was a success was that cut copy paste worked the same in the early applications; mostly office. That fact alone is what lead to Microsoft office dominance and the accompanying windows dominance, and the adoption of cut copy paste in nearly every piece of software made since then. Until now, unfortunately it works in some browser software, and not others.  Then there is 3D manipulation. I switch between 5 or 6 3D software programs, and guess how many use unique gestures to manipulate?  If you said 5 or 6, you nailed it. This is the source of 99% of my time consuming errors.  How easy it is to miss the simple smart things.

I do agree with you on this generally, the variation between programs can be massive. I would love to see Onshape include settings for users to customise how the camera works for them. Perhaps with presets mimicking the other big CAD players to ease switching. 

*edit*

Having thought about it, maybe a second key to hold to allow a left or right rotation with the mouse? I currently use the right mouse + ctrl to pan, so if I could hold down right mouse + ctrl + alt to rotate id be very happy with that.

juan_aviles

I found this to also be a problem for me at first.  Changing the view from isometric to trimetric helps.  On that note, it would be nice if Onshape included in the menu an icon that showed which you were currently using.  Right now the three (isometric, dimetric, trimetric) are listed, but there is no indication which is currently active.  Small gripe but I think it should be addressed.

andrew_troup

Skippy said:

I have found it behaves unpredictably at times and everything ends up on an angle. The rotate arrows around the view cube in the top right dont always get it back easily either.

I dont dislike the way the camera handles but sometimes I find myself wishing for something to click to straighten everything up without altering my camera view in any other way. 

If you select an edge or line you want to be vertical using RMB, then pick "Align view with vertical axis", you will find your prayer has already been answered.

(a recent improvement, and a very welcome one)

Skippy

andrew_troup said:

Skippy said:

I have found it behaves unpredictably at times and everything ends up on an angle. The rotate arrows around the view cube in the top right dont always get it back easily either.

I dont dislike the way the camera handles but sometimes I find myself wishing for something to click to straighten everything up without altering my camera view in any other way. 

If you select an edge or line you want to be vertical using RMB, then pick "Align view with vertical axis", you will find your prayer has already been answered.

(a recent improvement, and a very welcome one)

excellent, I hadn't found that yet. Thanks!

jonathan_adams

I would definitely prefer the middle mouse button orbit control. The problem for me isn't so much getting used to the RMB as orbit, it's the fact that there are two functions currently for RMB. A quick click is a menu, and hold click for orbit. The problem is that if you want to orbit quickly, you get the menu...which makes me want to tear out my eye balls.

_Ðave_

@jonathan_wong I have found that the menu pops up when imitating a very short orbit move.

andrew_troup

DaVicki - I'm guessing here, but was there a sneaky spell checker "assisting" the content of your last message?

_Ðave_

@andrew_troup Thanks, I'll try again

@jonathan_adams I have found that the menu pops up when initiating  a very short orbit move.

robert_smith900

I've come from maya and zbrush and the like and agree with the OP. At least an option to lock the vertical to stay vertical would be amazing.

ruan_lubbe

Onshape's view rotate function has also driven me crazy in the past, especially when continuously moving between 3D printing slicing software interfaces and OS.  I've found that using the Constrained rotate feature help a lot.  This can be done by holding Alt while dragging with the RMB.  Hope this helps.

ruan_lubbe

Onshape's rotate method has also driven me crazy in the past, especially when continuously moving between 3D printing slicing software interfaces and OS.  I've found that using the Constrained rotate feature helps a lot.  This can be done by holding Alt while dragging with the RMB.  Hope this helps.