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Onshape Drawings announced today

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Comments

  • moengineeringmoengineering Member Posts: 23
    Hello togehter,

    I prefer ISOCPEUR. Reminds me on the early days, starting with technical drawings and using templates to draw on transparent paper with ink :)



    Best regards
    Martinimage
  • caradoncaradon OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 300 PRO
    @DriesVervoort_Caradon what do you mean by "HUGE"? Thanks
    I've always found the default dimension font in SOLIDWORKS to be relatively large.

    Dries
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    +1 for painless, 1:1 dxf export in the earliest version possible, ideally R12

    It's not just a question of whether we, the Onshape user, have a recent app which can use a recent version; sometimes the suppliers who do profile cutting do not, and that's beyond our control.

    +1 for Arial on drawings (aka Helvetica on a Mac)
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 1,948 PRO
    @Andrew_Troup I'd look out for R12 in the right click .dxf part studio export in the next release. 

    Must be getting close for the next update soon.
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • devon_sowelldevon_sowell Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    @DriesVervoort_Caradon what do you mean by "HUGE"? Thanks
    I've always found the default dimension font in SOLIDWORKS to be relatively large.

    Dries
    Easy to change :)
    Devon Sowell
    Engineering Consulting Partner
    Professor, Engineering Technology, Palomar College, San Marcos, CA
    [email protected]
    760 809 9046
    CarlsbadCAD Carlsbad,CA
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 1,948 PRO
    @DriesVervoort_Caradon what do you mean by "HUGE"? Thanks
    I've always found the default dimension font in SOLIDWORKS to be relatively large.

    Dries
    Easy to change :)
    Better if you don't have too. But don't think it will be an issue in Onshape Drawings. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • jon_mcintyrejon_mcintyre Onshape Employees Posts: 56
    @Jon McIntyre please include single line Fonts for Water/Laser/Plasma cutting/etching and make these special Fonts easily identifiable for use without having to remember their names/location. Thanks
    Devon, are you talking about stencil fonts?   Also, are you talking about using these fonts in otherwise blank (or almost blank) drawings, or perhaps putting stencil fonts into 3D geometry then using our DXF export of surfaces?
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    By "single line fonts" usually what is meant is a collection of "open" strings of lines, arcs and splines (ie, not enclosing any area) such as a monumental mason would inscribe on a marble slab, in preparation for following those single lines with the tip of a V-chisel.

    These do not by themselves serve any purpose in a solid model, in terms of creating solid protrusions or recesses, and it is traditionally difficult in most packages to manipulate and proces them to yield a realistic depiction of (say) an engraved line of text (using a V-pointed engraving tool). *

    That's a "nice to have", but what is essential is a way of attaching (if necessary, wrapping) the geometry to a face


    *One way to do it is to team up a single line font with a corresponding "rounded terminal" outline font, like VAG Rounded, originally designed (IIRC) for VW.
    http://cdnimg.fonts.net/ImagingService.ashx?imagetype=thumbnail&shopid=47971&RenderText=The+quick+brown+fox+jumps+over+the+lazy+dog.+The+quick+brown+fox+jumps+over+the+lazy+dog.&TextSize=32&width=1000&TextColor=#000000&BgColor=#ffffff

    The latter can then be extruded with draft, which (if the depth is specified overdeep) produces a sharp-bottomed V - at least in Solidworks. However it is necessary that outline text is able to split a face into multiple discrete areas for this to work. This used to be difficult in Solidworks.
  • onshaperonshaper Member, Mentor Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I'm confused as to why people want Arial for drawings. Doesn't Y14.5 spec fixed width fonts? I quite like this one.

    https://cstools.asme.org/csconnect/CommitteePages.cfm?Committee=C64041150&Action=40068


  • devon_sowelldevon_sowell Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    @Jon McIntyre 3D such as " Water/Laser/Plasma cutting/etching " is the main use. VAG Rounded as mentioned by @Andrew_Troup  looks good. Wrapping Text for Extruding on a curved surface is required.

    Here's a link for single line Fonts, easy to machine. https://www.google.com/search?q=single+;line+Font&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=y9g3VZDgCYyfgwTSkICYAg&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=920

    Also, really I'm not that picky about the Font used in 2D drawings. I would never spend any time changing the Font on an existing drawing unless someone else complained about it.

    There used to be an issue in SolidWorks Drawings many years ago that 1:1 DXF drawings weren't actually 1:1, fixed these days.

    Finally, I tell my SolidWorks students that 2D drawings is a misnomer; they're locked views of wireframe 3D models ;) Look for the Rotate icon in SW to spin the drawing views in 3D.
    Devon Sowell
    Engineering Consulting Partner
    Professor, Engineering Technology, Palomar College, San Marcos, CA
    [email protected]
    760 809 9046
    CarlsbadCAD Carlsbad,CA
  • ales_1ales_1 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Hello togehter,

    I prefer ISOCPEUR.

    Also prefer Isocpeur, we use it on production drawings and it is very readable and technical.
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 1,948 PRO
    edited April 2015
    @Jon McIntyre Just walked past a stack of part's with part numbers etched from the laser. Please give Onshape ability to pump the dxf straight out with a single line font. No messing around in other packages or having to be added by the laser programer.

    Also good move dropping the dxf export back to R11.   
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Minor but not insignificant point of terminology: generally speaking, etching differs from engraving: the former acts on an area, the latter on a line.  (polylines, line/arc strings, splines). A pedant would probably emphasise the distinction by referring to the former as 'raster etching' and the latter as 'vector engraving'. Naturally, many do not respect these nuances... but single line fonts are definitely specialised to vector methods, such as cutting and some forms of engraving. 

    Amen with @BruceBartlett on retrograding of dxf export: engraving machines see very light duty and last for decades, still run perfectly well on a 286 (!) era computer ... and compulsory/unhelpful/unavailable software/hardware upgrades, particularly when forced on cost-effective third party subcontractors, are Not Our Friend.
  • devon_sowelldevon_sowell Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    Here is the Wikipedia link to the ANSI standards, scroll down & look at Technical lettering
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_drawing

    They mention Gothic Sans-Serif, I'll attached a photo of that font.

    Again, these days using CAD, I think it's a minor point, not like when I took my Final Exam in college using Ink on Vellum! (I cheated by making it first in AutoCAD, then I traced over it :) ) I think I used RomanS.



    Devon Sowell
    Engineering Consulting Partner
    Professor, Engineering Technology, Palomar College, San Marcos, CA
    [email protected]
    760 809 9046
    CarlsbadCAD Carlsbad,CA
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    Font style on drawings (a different topic from my last post, but running hot!): in visual terms I'd be perfectly happy with whatever is in use for this very forum. (Looks a bit like "Eurostyle"). The capitals (which on a drawing are all I care about) are every bit as good as Arial. There is however a serious set of advantages for  Arial/Helvetica. It has cross-platform universality, as well as accepted, authoritative, single sources.

    By contrast, Gothic Sans, mentioned by @Devon_Sowell , has 27 completely different variant families (not just styles, like bold or narrow) in the single link he posted, one of which may be the particularly offensive New Century Gothic, with insufficient heft, pointy terminals et al, chosen (perplexingly) by Solidworks.

    Consistency is important, not least because nothing looks worse than a drawing where the text runs over borders or into parts, due to substitution of a font with different leading and kerning, not to mention basic width.

    However going the single-width route, reverting to fonts intended for pen plotters, does not appeal to this kid. Drawings are more than just a means of communication, and if we don't care how ugly they are, we degrade our little corner of the world, just we would by entrusting the look of our place of business or residence to the lowest bidder.
  • onshaperonshaper Member, Mentor Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I don't see single width as ugly, I see it as authoritative. Comic sans isn't ugly, but it's the opposite of authoritative.
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Hmm - @onshaper- I won't attack your taste (de gustibus, etc) but for a moment there I got a whiff of blood regarding your logic ...
    except I don't think you actually intended proposing a logical proposition, more of an illustration of various criteria.

    Let me ask this: Do you consider Arial to be lacking in authority? 

    ( For those who might think earnest discussion of font style represents time wasted, I'd have to say that a study of the history of Apple Computer -- among others -- might suggest a rather different POV )
  • onshaperonshaper Member, Mentor Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Okay, you got me, Comic Sans is ugly.  :D

    Arial is probably the best font that is most accessible that wasn't designed for engineering drawings.

    I'm fairly certain fixed width fonts are required by ANSI Y14.5 which is more important than form. Drawings are legal documents and must meet Y14.5 specifications (or ISO whatever, DIN whatever, etc). Also, the Y14.5 font I linked earlier contains all the feature callout symbols required by Y14.5, which Arial does not have. Even if you used Arial you'd have to make use of these fixed width features and visually they won't match up!

    Edit: The font I posted is not fixed width. Hmmmm. I guess I'll have to concede to not being sure about the font, except that the font I posted has feature callouts built in which is nice. :smile: 
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    Constant width makes a lot of sense to me for width-constrained callouts, GD&T and the like.
    In other situations, it seems to me that consistent width (across platforms) is what matters.

    Kudos for being fair-minded, @Onshaper.
    As a reciprocal concession, there is the potential problem with ambiguity in many non technical fonts.

    Arial does, however, seems better than many, and in my CAD-standards negotiator days across several large and exacting organisations, we found it relatively blameless, in practice, on this score.

    The lower case l vs numeral 1 is quite well differentiated, as is the 0 vs O, and in any case, many people will occasionally misremember whether the strikethrough of the latter pertains to the numeral or the alpha instance (admittely that's mainly because technical fonts are so rarely used outside niche disciplines.) Wireless router passcodes are routinely misinterpreted in this way.
  • r_paulr_paul Member Posts: 22 ✭✭

    Wading into this discussion relating to Onshape's drawing capability and the fonts to be used on a drawing if I may.

    The first thing I would say is that if a person (student) of mine was to had in a drawing done in a 2D package or off the back of a 3d model (ie Solidworks/Inventor etc.) and the notations used Arial as a font they would be marked down quite severely. Arial and other similar fonts are for commercial printing and newspapers NOT drawings. The reason being all the units of competency covering those tasks require adherence to AS1100. I'm sure that would go for other draughtpersons in other jurisdictions using other standards.

    Therefore any professional CAD draughting should have as its basis fonts which conform to those standards. That's an easy answers to the question and not as hard, to comply with as it would seem. There is some latitude given and, even I am flexible in understanding CAD vendors are in no way (truthfully) interested in standards other than their own.

    Dare I say it, but a look at Autodesk's AutoCAD & Draftsight for a method of implementing Fonts choice and flexibility in adjusting heights, spacing, width and angle of fonts/styles used.

    This is, of course, leads into one of the great challenges of 2D CAD as a stand alone or as an adjunct to 3D; it needs to be as flexible as possible in all settings to allow the drafty to produce a document which conforms to the standards of the jurisdiction and or the company in which s/h/e is working for/in.

    Given we now can works so easily across the globe we live in - (Onshape extends that capability) – flexibility (and its subsequent complexity) is all the more important to ensure compliance is not a stumbling block to winning a contract.

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