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Vendor/Customer Sharing

brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
edited May 2018 in Product Feedback
Once again I am saving files out to dropbox and every time I ask myself why am I doing this, isn't the whole point of cloud CAD to alleviate this? Why can't I just store file's in my Onshape doc and give folk a list of links? or why can't I share an openBOM with links to Onshape drawings and parts?

But every time I come to the conclusion for a number of reasons it's better to just save it out share or link to the files or folders in Dropbox or Google drive. Some of the Onshape issue's include:

  • I don't want to share my whole document with the vendor just parts of it. I know I can break it into small docs and share but that's just too much work.
  • It comes up in an unfamiliar format which vendors don't get, Dropbox or google drive comes with no questions. (I am sure this will change over time as vendor become trained familiar) 
  • I don't want multiple vendors seeing who the other vendors are.
  • Drawings are slow to load in Onshape where as a pdf in google drive opens 8x quicker. (I know Onshape are actively working on Improving speed here.)
  • No way to view in 3d or download a part independently of the part studio. 
  • I am not real keen on sharing my whole document by "anyone with link". 
I'd love to hear other experiences and workflows. Also what Vendors want to see shared for a bid.



Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
Tagged:

Comments

  • emagdalenaC2iemagdalenaC2i Member, Developers, Channel partner Posts: 755 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I totally agree with you
    • I don't want to share my whole document with the vendor just parts of it. I know I can break it into small docs and share but that's just too much work.
    Actually I don't break a document in small docs. I just prefer to create a single new document and duplicate & move tabs or create derived parts from the original document.
    So I can create a new document only with the information I want to share with a kind of vendor (like CNC, sheet metal parts, etc.)
    • It comes up in an unfamiliar format which vendors don't get, Dropbox or google drive comes with no questions. (I am sure this will change over time as vendor become trained familiar) 
    You can share that document with a vendor and include a personal message to explain the tabs of the document, how to export the files, etc.
    • I don't want multiple vendors seeing who the other vendors are.
    I will love to create a team that let me keep other team members invisible, but right now the best way is to share the document with several Individuals instead of a team
    • Drawings are slow to load in Onshape where as a pdf in google drive opens 8x quicker. (I know Onshape are actively working on Improving speed here.)
    You can add the PDF as tabs as well
    • No way to view in 3d or download a part independently of the part studio. 
    You can create a new Part Studio with a derived part from the original document.
    Even if you change the original part the derived part will update properly.
    • I am not real keen on sharing my whole document by "anyone with link". 
    As I mentioned before, rigth now the best way is to share the document with several Individuals instead of a team
    Un saludo,

    Eduardo Magdalena                           C2i Change 2 improve                           ☑ ¿Por qué no organizamos una reunión online?   
                                                                         Partner de PTC - Onshape                                      Averigua a quién conocemos en común
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,381
    Bruce / Eduardo - this is great feedback and yes, we absolutely will be supporting these workflows.
    I am sitting next to the chap that is scoping this functionality and he has asked that all interested parties please submit Feedback tickets so that we can keep an accurate tally and know whom to notify when we complete the work.
    Thank you both for your input.
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    edited May 2018
    Thanks, @emagdalenaC2C, you have some good points here to solve these problems but we shouldn't have to go to so much effort to share with a vendor. If we are going to have to move tabs breaking up document structure, copy or derive our documents, it becomes easier just to save out to Dropbox, however, to share by a method other than Onshape just seems wrong when this is what the platform is designed to do. 

    One solution may be the ability to tag tabs or folders within a document for a specific share.  

    When in dropbox if I share a file the user can not see the rest of my folder, I want a share like this in Onshape which allows only a specific tab and version. 

    Dropbox also has these setting you can add when sharing an individually file. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    edited May 2018
    Bruce / Eduardo - this is great feedback and yes, we absolutely will be supporting these workflows.
    I am sitting next to the chap that is scoping this functionality and he has asked that all interested parties please submit Feedback tickets so that we can keep an accurate tally and know whom to notify when we complete the work.
    Thank you both for your input.
    Thanks, Philip.  I think I have some ticket running on this already but hope others also get involved in this discussion and add their own tickets so we can get you as much info and use cases as we can, so all bases are covered.   
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • owen_sparksowen_sparks Member, Developers Posts: 2,660 PRO
    ...the chap that is scoping this functionality and he has asked that all interested parties please submit Feedback tickets...
    Donedefied.  Cheers folks :)

    Owen S.
    Business Systems and Configuration Controller
    HWM-Water Ltd
  • bruce_williamsbruce_williams Member, Developers Posts: 835 PRO

    So I would like to tag on for knowing how/when this resolves.  My issue is not so much Vendor as Customer sharing and yet I think that is same.

    @philip_thomas   You suggested "all interested parties please submit Feedback tickets".  Could you explain when Feedback should be used vs. Improvement Request on the forum?   If we should use Feedback in this case how should it be referenced?  Give a link to this thread?  or something else?
    www.accuratepattern.com
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,381
    @bruce_williams - Good Questions.

    An improvement request is a poll of all interested parties. We aggregate this number and use it to help rank the functionality requests.
    No specific individual is recorded and we do not reach out to individuals that vote on the IR.
    A feedback ticket is available to Pro Users only and we tally these separately - it helps us understand what Pro users are saying they need and helps us filter out those needs from the 'noise'. We also individually tag those accounts - 'THIS person is looking for . . . '. If we have further questions, we may reach out to individuals that submitted like tickets. When we do something that addresses a ticketed issue, we send an email to all Pro users that submitted a like ticket.

    As a Pro user, i would def submit tickets for anything you 'need' - feel free to vote on IR's as well.

    I hope this helps.
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    My issue is not so much Vendor as Customer sharing and yet I think that is same.

     Bruce, Let me update the title.
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • bruce_williamsbruce_williams Member, Developers Posts: 835 PRO
    @philip_thomas - Thanks, nice explanation.
    @brucebartlett - Perfect.   :)
    www.accuratepattern.com
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    I wonder if with the release of Onshape Enterprise we will see some improvements to the Vendor and Customer sharing issues I highlighted in the original post. Like I said I hate saving out to other cloud platforms but it's what I have to do atm to get the job done. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • emagdalenaC2iemagdalenaC2i Member, Developers, Channel partner Posts: 755 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a Guest User Access in Onshape Enterprise so a company can add other users (external users) to their projects, folders and documents...
    But I think that the sharing options are the same
    Un saludo,

    Eduardo Magdalena                           C2i Change 2 improve                           ☑ ¿Por qué no organizamos una reunión online?   
                                                                         Partner de PTC - Onshape                                      Averigua a quién conocemos en común
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,381
    Gentlemens - yes, Enterprise has some neat capabilities ('Guest' users is just one such example).
    That said, we are looking at very specific solutions to this issue - we hear you :)
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    Thanks @philip_thomas much appreciated, sorry to be that squeaking door. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,381
    Bruce - I am sure that 'door' is far from the worst thing you have been called! ;)
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • JollsJolls Member Posts: 78 ✭✭
    Has much changed here since May of 2018? I am going through how best to share with vendors and it seems that when I look through the current Onshape sharing features I still have to copy/derive parts into a new document that is shared with a vendor. I am thinking of having 1 document per vendor that all shared/derived/copied tabs go into and that document is shared as view only (with export) with just them. That way I can easily control what vendor has access to what. I don't like making links public but that's great for onboarding a new vendor until they've created a free account. For new vendors I'd probably also export myself and email them STEP and PDF files initially plus a shared link with a request for them to make a free account to OS.
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,381
    @Jolls - yes, deriving or linking into another document works - the main benefit being that if the recipient is shared in as read-only (+export), then they are unable to update the link to any other version/revision.

    The alternative is the methodology that we recommend, that ironically is a slightly worse solution for this scenario.
    The recommended practice is that when a part or assembly is ready to be revision managed (and therefore likely needed to be shared for quoting or manufacturing purposes), that the part studio (or assembly) be moved to its own document prior to release. The main benefit is that the documents created by this workflow are self-contained. Meaning they contain the release object (the revision), the drawing (if needed) and can be shared as a single share. This workflow is documented extensively in the tech briefings (in the learning center). While this workflow is the recommended best practice, the downside is that the sharee can navigate to other versions/revisions.

    That all said, Jolls - your logic is sound. :)
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • romeograhamromeograham Member, Simulation EVP Posts: 609 PRO
    One way that I've been dealing with this:

    My example vendors are non-competing (they are each providing different parts for a single assembly) and both are aware of the other party. They both need to see the full assembly for context (I need as much help as I can get from vendors that understand the full scope and can spot mistakes), but only need to make certain parts.

    I create a new Document that I share either view / export with the link or direct view only share with their free Onshape accounts. 

    In my "working" document, I Release all the parts, subassemblies, and drawings.
    Then I export all PDF drawings of the released drawings.

    Then, in my shared document, I derive the Released Revision of the top-level assembly, and import all of the PDF drawings (because, as we know, we can't derive drawings yet). As I update individual parts, I release, export, and update the drawings in the shared document (as well as go through the absolute torture of ending up with a new Revision of the Top Level Assembly, which then gets updated in the shared document too).

    Then, my two vendors can export the STEP files of the assembly, and download only the PDF drawings they need (which I specify in separate RFQ or PO documents). The new "export a single part even if you have view only access" feature is a really good one for this - since before, vendors had to export the entire assembly each time they needed to export a changed part that I update. This gives me a single shared document that my vendors can access, and that I have to keep updated as I tweak the design over time.

    As @brucebartlett and others have so eloquently written for a long time - the Release process (while it shows promise and is much better than what I used to do in SW) is waaaay too much work. Here's hoping that some of the many suggestions are close to implementation.

    Thanks
    romeo
  • Ivan_DeetlefsIvan_Deetlefs Member Posts: 19 PRO
    Hi guys

    Seems like this idea has either lost momentum or there is an improvement request that has taken on the momentum. I can't find one though. If I could be pointed in the right direction I would appreciate it.

    We are currently in the process of having share documents to multiple vendors for quoting purposes. It pains me that we are having to currently do this via traditional means, i.e. download every pdf or step file we need and email it to every vendor individually. A functionality where you can specify a phantom list under the share menu could simplify this, i.e. vendors can't see the share list and you can simply select which part of a document a vendor may or may not see 
  • Jake_RosenfeldJake_Rosenfeld Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,646
    edited February 2020
    @Ivan_Deetlefs

    This is definitely on our radar, but for the time being instead of exporting to a neutral file format, you could derive your parts into a fresh document, or insert your assembly into a fresh document, and then share that document with view permission to your vendors.  Would that help at all?
    Jake Rosenfeld - Modeling Team
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    edited February 2020
    Hi guys

    Seems like this idea has either lost momentum or there is an improvement request that has taken on the momentum. I can't find one though. If I could be pointed in the right direction I would appreciate it.

    We are currently in the process of having share documents to multiple vendors for quoting purposes. It pains me that we are having to currently do this via traditional means, i.e. download every pdf or step file we need and email it to every vendor individually. A functionality where you can specify a phantom list under the share menu could simplify this, i.e. vendors can't see the share list and you can simply select which part of a document a vendor may or may not see 
    Hi Ivan, thanks for sharing here. There have been some small improvements in this space since my OP but still, needs lots, lots more for it to be really usable. My solution here at the moment is risking using a share link for quoting and turning off after bidding but not ideal. I've dealt with probably close to 100 vendors since using Onshape and normally don't get a positive response, occasionally they will work with the data in Onshape but normally they ask for a known format. It's a constant frustration to me that I still have to export PDFs and step files and excel spreadsheet boms which is very time-consuming and further multiplied if you try to use release management. 

    @Jake_Rosenfeld we need better solutions that save time, Onshape has the platform and potential but I really feel you really need to be listening to the user's experience and working to solve these pain points. I am sick of spending all my time on Onshape Data management and little time on designing. There have been so many improvements is other areas which make Onshape a great product but I hope some attention can be given to the important space around data management. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • Jake_RosenfeldJake_Rosenfeld Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,646
    @brucebartlett

    We definitely agree that this is something that needs work, and it is tough to hear about your frustration, especially as we are trying to make a system where data management is as seamless as possible and tied in directly with the modeling.  Thank you for your feedback, as always it is great to know where our customers are feeling pain.
    Jake Rosenfeld - Modeling Team
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,121 PRO
    @Jake_Rosenfeld don't get me wrong I love using Onshape and I am consistently impressed with the level of support and continued innovation. For me its a total joy starting a project in Onshape, building out the part studios, doing the assemblies with the leading edge configurator, creating drawings which now is as good or better than any other package, also being able to use across devices at almost any location, sharing work with customers showing progress, while having zero IT overhead and constant updates  BUT....... I find it a real drag, once I get to the end stages of the project which are both the most high-stress part of the project, by the nature of people wanting the finial BOM, drawings, dxf's, etc but also where Onshape seems to have the least innovations and streamlining for adding metadata, building product structures and sending or sharing with appropriate vendors or departments. Maybe it's me but I have not found any good solutions which are quickly accepted keeping data totally in Onshape and I always find I have to go through the laborious task of exporting everything.  Please take this as positive, I am a happy customer just pushing for more as I see huge potential in this area. 
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
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