Welcome to the Onshape forum! Ask questions and join in the discussions about everything Onshape.

First time visiting? Here are some places to start:

  1. Looking for a certain topic? Check out the categories filter or use Search (upper right).
  2. Need support? Ask a question to our Community Support category.
  3. Please submit support tickets for bugs but you can request improvements in the Product Feedback category.
  4. Be respectful, on topic and if you see a problem, Flag it.

If you would like to contact our Community Manager personally, feel free to send a private message or an email.

What is the OnShape business plan and roadmap ?

Mark_SandersMark_Sanders Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
edited October 2014 in General
We (testers) are all 'grown-ups'  ( and under NDA's :-) )

We also have many years as buyers and end users of various CAD products, switching, learning, crashing and being on the end of the marketing of them.  Would it be possible to share the OS business plan, marketing, pricing and roadmap - I am sure we could positively contribute to the discussion.

OnShape looks likely to be excitingly disruptive and early user feedback on the commercial side might help.
Tagged:
«1

Comments

  • caradoncaradon OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 300 PRO
    That would be very interesting info indeed... :)

    Dries
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    From discussions here on the forum, I think we can see some of this...  I'll take a stab to get things started... From a differentiation side, Onshape is a completely hosted solution - no installation of software locally except for the browser (obviously).  This allows it to be pretty much platform neutral and for Onshape to focus development on their own internal single platform - rather than spin their wheels developing on multiple platforms.   For end users, the IT requirements will be absolutely minimal -  a key differentiation especially if you have ever setup data management for a decent sized company.  Other current products like SolidWorks Mechanical Conceptual and AutoDesk Fusion still have a local install of software.  Right now people question performance of a hosted solution, but eventually the completely hosted solutions will outperform local installations - hands down.  Much more horsepower will be at the user's fingertips if need be.  Onshape is inherently a database system without traditional files and as such there are some advantages - this becomes apparent on the data management side of things - to my knowledge it is rather unique on this end of things.  The CAD product seems to be developed around the data management needs and not the other way around.  The current generation of CAD has had PDM bolted on and as such the overhead is really too much.  A CAD tool developed around a database tool will be far more efficient to manage data in the long haul.  Collaboration will be a key selling point.  I'm not aware again of a tool like Onshape that would allow design teams to all work on the same data set with minimal overhead and setup as easily as this solution.  It will not matter where your designers are and no files will need to pass between them.  It won't be $4,000 CAD.  There will be a free teaser period for private creation of data.   You will pay for privacy over a certain amount of data.  The limited private data will allow people to sign-up for free, not install any software, and kick the tires for quite a while before they decide if they like it or not.  If they need to create a serious amount of private data -they will then begin to pay for that... who knows how much at this point.  I would bet it will be less than the pricing of SolidWorks Mechanical Conceptual.  My guess would be that Onshape undercuts the current CAD industry's pricing by a significant amount - such that it has broad mass appeal on the pricing side - somewhere between $25-$150 a month per user.  Onshape will do for CAD and design what no current entrenched player would do - because to them it feels like they would cut off their nose to spite their face if they undercut their current stable of products.  I think this is clearly an issue for the SolidWorks/Dassault conundrum.  I think Siemens will have the same issue with SolidEdge and NX.  AutoDesk seems a bit more open I think because they do not have such a large nest egg in the mechanical product realm.  For large component manufacturer's the lure of Onshape will be that their public data will be hosted for free.  This combines CAD and CAD model sharing into one environment (think 3D Content Central).  There will be large advantages if they can get critical mass/adoption of large component manufacturer's to use Onshape as their public product data host.  I see that Onshape has an API team.  I think we will see Onshape connect to other hosted and non-hosted software and services so that Onshape becomes a hub of activity.  I could see cloud based rendering, FEA, PLM, ERP, etc...being able to talk to one another and integrate eventually.  I'm sure I could think of more advantages that go into marketing the product...  This is a start, what do you folks think?
  • lougallolougallo Member, Administrator, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,675
    @pdy That is a pretty good "stab" for sure.  I did comment here ( https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/157/is-there-any-specific-data-limit-for-a-user-to-create-number-of-onshape-documents#latest) about some potentials for plans but I believe you have touched on many of the points of the business model.  Hosted, Low IT infrastructure, Build in PDM, Collaborative CAD that is vastly extensible and could integrate/automate into systems your currently have.  I will let others comment as well but from the technical stance, that would be the offering.  


    Lou Gallo / PD/UX - Support - Community / Onshape, Inc.
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    Maybe we could add that the reseller network that is popular with today's stable of CAD products probably won't be needed for this product which has been developed post internet adoption.  If that's the case, it will affect the bottom line for Onshape and users as the costs won't need to support a vast reseller network.
  • lougallolougallo Member, Administrator, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,675
    @pdy We believe in community, being engaged and solving problems.  Around most CAD platforms is a great community and we want to be in the chatter and understand the challenges so we can plan accordingly.
    Lou Gallo / PD/UX - Support - Community / Onshape, Inc.
  • billy2billy2 Member, OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 1,300 PRO
    @‌ PDY -Wow

    You should write brochures, you summed it up nicely.

    Wish more was being done to advance parametric assemblies though. Seems like we're still going to have parts, assemblies and mayhem.


    It'd be nice to see a paragraph like this:
    Assemblies have been cleaned up so you can easily understand their structure and modifications are a snap. Instead of spending hours agonizing over how a parametric assembly was built, Onshape's improvements reduces this to minutes. Gone are the scary scenarios when a parametric assembly auto-regenerates and you have no idea what changed. Clear and concise design intent is captured throughout every part and assembly. Everything's transparent, easily understood and a joy to work on.


  • scott_harrisscott_harris Moderator, Onshape Employees Posts: 60
    Yes... very good "stab". To underscore Lou's point, I can't overstate how valuable this forum has been both for new users looking for a resource and for us (at Onshape) to get insights to issues and direct feedback. Also, our philosophy is to not "dumb down" our free version because it makes sense for people trying it out to see the full benefits. To PDY's point, from the very beginning of Onshape, we have given data management, collaboration and engineering workflow a lot of thought. Though there are many things left to do, we have built a foundation that will allow us to rapidly add capabilities. Your comments, complaints and replies work wonders.
    Scott Harris / Onshape, Inc.
  • kevin_quigleykevin_quigley Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    One comment. I tried to use Onshape in a hotel the other day. No wifi, no phone signal, no Onshape. This remains an issue that the likes of Autodesk Fusion get around using locally installed elements.
  • caradoncaradon OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 300 PRO
    edited October 2014
    @KevinQuigley‌ ;
    Sue that hotel!!  :)
    I think it's fair to say internet access won't become less pervasive. At least in Belgium, you get wifi most everywhere. The two main ISPs here have set up a vast network of free-to-access hotspots. And if wifi doesn't work out, you can use 3G/4G (my data plan has a monthly volume of 5GB... that's a lot of Onshape...).

    Still, the issue you mention is probably one of the reasons why no one has yet delivered a production-grade cloud-based CAD tool. Yet it is also the reason why Onshape will be able to offer something completely refreshing and lead the way. Because let's be frank, CAD sharing and compatibility is a complete mess.

    Dries
  • Mark_SandersMark_Sanders Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    @pdy  sounds like your assumptions are pretty spot on - well done ! 

    I love the elegant way Onshape has simplified 3D CAD... so far.
    I am keen to know which advanced modelling tools will be added, and what their controls, and ease of use will be like ... hopefully the same elegance will shine through on modelling tools such as organic a-class surface creation and manipulation. 

    I hope my expectations are not too high .. ie browser based CAD with CATIA-like, power, with better-than-solidworks ease of use: thats so obvious to use that manuals are not necessary   .... I know that's a high bar,  but hey, if re-writing the book, why not ? 

    For consumer product designers the challenge/mantra for many years has been 'get to know how the user really works and thinks [ethnographics] and then delight them with innovation that works for them (not us), over-delivers technology solutions in better, easy, fun and more elegant ways' ........ well,  this is the aim anyway, even if rarely achieved  :)  

    What this means practically for the best consumer product development is many iterative prototypes each tested with real end users - this can be SO enlightening for designers ... "I thought it was obvious that you have to press that button to make it open - obviously wrong :-) "

    Does CAD Software development, go through similar iterative 'observed prototype use' and really listen to feedback, on how to do better ?
    Or ...  is it so much harder when the users of such CAD tools are:
     
    a) more varied than users of consumer products ? Administrators, Machinery designers, consumer product designers, big co, small co,  etc etc 

    b) Already have years of 'bad CAD habits'  ? 
    So, like when Henry Ford asked potential car buyers what they wanted all they said was 'Faster Horses' :), is the response from existing CAD users, be "the ability to draw lines from the centre"  ..... a sad, unimaginative result of last years solidworks top 10 new feature user pole.  :s  

    c) Have huge expectations,  like me   B) 

  • Ben_Ben_ OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 276 PRO
    You can come and visit here. I'll find a date that is likely to have a few feet of snow and -40 so you can really enjoy yourself :)

  • jon_hirschtickjon_hirschtick Onshape Employees Posts: 88
    @AndyMorris‌ well said.

    That's really how we try to act and think and build here at Onshape.  We take every click and every pixel seriously and try to build it all into a CAD tool you will truly find not only gets your job done, but also makes you feel awesome.


  • jon_hirschtickjon_hirschtick Onshape Employees Posts: 88
    @Mark77a‌ I realized we never responded to your original post in this thread: what's our business plan, marketing and pricing roadmap.  In summary: monthly fee.  No upfront license.  Market to pros.  Also a free version for learning/eval/viewing/student/hobbyist users.  Public data always free.  What would you suggest as a monthly fee?
  • kevin_quigleykevin_quigley Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    Jon the pricing issue is a thorny one. The standard rate for online cloud based solutions seems to be around $50 to $60 a month. GrabCAD Workbench is in this range, most cloud based web conferencing systems are, as are most cloud based Project Management solutions. 

    Yet, your biggest direct competitor, Autodesk, offers a similar model (Pro and free), with a more mature modelling solution ( and drawings)  for £25 a month. 

    So the answer is simply £25 a month, or no more than $60 a month.
  • Mark_SandersMark_Sanders Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November 2014
    AndyMorris GREAT reply ... you got it !!!  ( you probably guessed .. I dont think other CAD developers get it) 

    JonHirschtick The Price I'd be prepared to pay depends on how universally it meets my needs  ;)  .. I'd need Solidworks Office+Powershape Functionality as standard. PLUS, about 3 times a year, I'd like Solidworks Premium (for FEA / Motion) for which I'd be prepared to pay more. BUT unlike the solidworks model I dont want to pay an extra c$10K subs (over $1200 basic) for those 3 dips into Premium. 

    For this I'd pay $60 / month (and $100+ / month for premium) ... but I'd be delighted to pay $60 and get premium features/FEA tool :-) (see my scottish/yorkshire roots :-) 

    Oh and equal Global pricing (UK swks subs are 1.6 x US subs !! ) , with licensing to work anywhere, strictly I am in breach of swks licence depending on where I park my laptop :-) 

    Like @kevinQuigley I'm a bit concerned about working without fast internet connection .. its kinda cool to CAD on top of a hill/beach/coffeeshop. Is this a no-go ? 

    I know, super expectations :-) :-) 
  • Ben_Ben_ OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 276 PRO
    FWIW I have used OS with 3G so I am not sure what you consider to be fast internet but 3G in the end is pretty slow...
  • jon_hirschtickjon_hirschtick Onshape Employees Posts: 88
    @Mark77a Thanks for the pricing feedback.

    We hear you on the global pricing -- totally agree.  And of course the global licensing -- great point.

    In terms of fast internet, and CADing on a hill/beach/mountaintop, I think we work great.  I just used Onshape on top of a mountain in Arizona recently.  I have a video to prove it.

    We like to think that Onshape will let people CAD in *more* places than traditional CAD, not less.  Because we run on anything, anywhere there is an internet connection.  And, soon, mobile devices too.  True, you don't control whether or not there is an internet connection, or how fast it is.  But we have at least one user who says they now CAD on the plane (on their MacBook Air) with Onshape, whereas before they never could since their CAD is installed on a workstation in the office.

    Every day the coverage and speed of the internet gets better, I think.  In the US average network speed grew 50% last year.  But desktop PCs cannot get any faster (clock rate limits). 

  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    @jonhirschtick I should have given OS a try this week. I've been in Haiti and a friend had a Macbook connected through his iPhone hot spot - 3g... I might be able to test later this week through him.
  • mark_biasottimark_biasotti Member Posts: 123 ✭✭✭
    When it comes to OS Business and Marking roadmap I've expressed some of my thoughts at the end of this thread:https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/186/online-vs-offline#latest
  • Jim_AndersJim_Anders Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    @Mark77a Thanks for the pricing feedback.

    We hear you on the global pricing -- totally agree.  And of course the global licensing -- great point.

    In terms of fast internet, and CADing on a hill/beach/mountaintop, I think we work great.  I just used Onshape on top of a mountain in Arizona recently.  I have a video to prove it.

    We like to think that Onshape will let people CAD in *more* places than traditional CAD, not less.  Because we run on anything, anywhere there is an internet connection.  And, soon, mobile devices too.  True, you don't control whether or not there is an internet connection, or how fast it is.  But we have at least one user who says they now CAD on the plane (on their MacBook Air) with Onshape, whereas before they never could since their CAD is installed on a workstation in the office.

    Every day the coverage and speed of the internet gets better, I think.  In the US average network speed grew 50% last year.  But desktop PCs cannot get any faster (clock rate limits). 

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.

    - Wayne Gretzky 

  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    @JonHirschtick ; Just got feedback from my buddy still in Haiti.  He was able to access a design in Onshape and he said performance was decent.  I assume the slower the connection the longer it takes to cache the geometry, but once cached the view performance is dictated by local graphics horsepower.  Edits make take longer to perform on a slower connection I would think - but if its mainly for viewing it should be decent.  Thought you might like some anecdotal performance feedback.  Talk about lowering barriers...  Very impressive. 
  • mark_biasottimark_biasotti Member Posts: 123 ✭✭✭
    Not to be a bear-in-the-buckwheat... But I can use my current CAD on the top of Half Dome (Arizona "foothills" don't count -:) )  or for that matter ANYWHERE regardless if whether there is an internet connection or tethering to my LTE.

    Lets not loose sight if this.

    Mark
  • pete_yodispete_yodis OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 666 ✭✭✭
    @mbiasotti Good point there.  I always hear that CAD in the cloud will require too much bandwidth to work well.  I think the Onshape method is proving that you don't need high bandwidth to work with it.  Pretty impressive nonetheless.
  • mark_biasottimark_biasotti Member Posts: 123 ✭✭✭
    Yes, certainly agree that the developers have done a really good job with OS as far as performance over limited bandwidth!

    Mark
  • MarcelMarcel Member Posts: 1
    I so totally get this and can't wait to design and build a whole fleet of Symphony Boats with OS's amazing sheet metal tools with my crew.  When those tools become functional, that is.
  • david_sohlstromdavid_sohlstrom Member, Mentor Posts: 159 ✭✭
    @Marcel  I found your website. Beautiful boats. Is DelfShip not better designed for designing boat hulls. Are you CNC routing your frames or using built up frames from templates. The vessels I work on are generally 5' and under RC models. 

    Dave
    David Sohlstrom

    Ariel, WA
  • colemancoleman OS Professional Posts: 242 PRO
    @Mark77a‌ I realized we never responded to your original post in this thread: what's our business plan, marketing and pricing roadmap.  In summary: monthly fee.  No upfront license.  Market to pros.  Also a free version for learning/eval/viewing/student/hobbyist users.  Public data always free.  What would you suggest as a monthly fee?
    The monthly fee is nice but it would be great to pay a yearly subscription fee for a discount.  
  • jacob_pelletierjacob_pelletier Member Posts: 4
    Monthly fees are straighforward, ie. Unlimited Data, Bandwidth, Processing Power, etc for $100/month.  However, I have always been a fan of the "a la carte" Amazon Web Services model where you pay based on data usage, cpu time, and/or storage space. It is a transparent system that allows end users to budget usage and get the most out of the service.  It also allows Onshape to profit most from their products/services. For example, most people might find $100/month for Onshape to be too expensive for the amount of time they use it to the fullest and would never pay, but they would do $10/month. Rather than only give people the option of paying $100/month or $0/month, let people pay how much they want.  The free tier is a great starting point for most people, but if someone wants access to greater storage, or faster UI for a couple days out of the month they could budget for them and buy the cpu time / bandwidth when it is needed most, then drop back to the free tier until needs change again and there is a need for more resources. Who knows, some months one might consume $200-$300, all depending on resource utilization (ie. number of processors dedicated to their session) rather than feature restriction.  In regards to how prices are determined, try to not base costs on access to modelling features. This business model is annoying and a gimmick from the 20th century.  If Onshape can manage an a la carte or "Utility" model based on GB/month or CPU hours/month then they would have successfully converted CAD into a real-time commodity, just like paying the monthly electric bill for kwh.  One other option this brings in is having rates that vary throughout the day based on system usage, that way users looking for a deal might work on CAD in off peak hours and help balance the load on the Onshape infrastructure...
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,388 PRO
    @jacob_pelletier As a fan of fixed price I see a problem in your approach, this would most likely kill the community support where you make your model public (or share) and others create their own copy and fix it for you. Not to mention just playing and learning.

    But I agree that it's a great difference from $0 to $100 only difference being limitation on active documents and 5gb storage. I would like to see something in the middle.

    Active users of free might exploit tabs in a way that their user experience in assembly mode and in general navigation suffers (create all your models in one document). And after frustrated with the situation updating to pro just noticing that it doesn't make any difference as the fault is already made.
    It's a tough one to come up with decent difference between free and paid;
    striping features NO,
    advertising in free version NO,
    limit documents MAYBE,
    limit amount of active tabs inside document MAYBE (would support for healthy structure of documents),
    just limit storage space of user documents MAYBE (my favorite),
    limited access to oncoming standard parts, dropbox/drive and other libraries on free version YES (allow access in beta though)

    My ideal system would be to have:
    1. Free 5gb Limited account
    2. $50 20gb account (just to lower the step into paid version)
    3. $100 unlimited account (1 month free if paid annually)
    4. $1200 /year small business license including 5x unlimited accounts for best user experience in collaboration. Yearly agreement. 

    And of course give away pro licenses for all the beta commentors ;) B)
    //rami
Sign In or Register to comment.