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Creo+ (new SaaS Creo)
nick_papageorge073
Member, csevp Posts: 816 PRO
2min introductory video
https://youtu.be/YxFgivyuD2E
It seems PTC's other CAD product, Creo, now has a cloud based option called Creo+. I used Creo from from the late 90's through 2021, and liked it a lot. I do like OS better. A few question/comments:
-I wonder how similar or different it is to Onshape (the cloud aspect).
-I see branching and versioning in this video.
-It seems somewhat compatible with local Creo (regular) design files. I wonder how they do syncing.
-Their demo video has it running on an Apple iMac! With the logo hidden, ha ha.
-I wonder if it costs more/same/less than the regular Creo version.
-Did PTC use OS technology to build this? Or was it developed separately?
-Will the two products now compete more directly for sales? I could see a company currently using Creo and considering switching to OS now deciding to go to Creo+ instead.
https://youtu.be/YxFgivyuD2EIt seems PTC's other CAD product, Creo, now has a cloud based option called Creo+. I used Creo from from the late 90's through 2021, and liked it a lot. I do like OS better. A few question/comments:
-I wonder how similar or different it is to Onshape (the cloud aspect).
-I see branching and versioning in this video.
-It seems somewhat compatible with local Creo (regular) design files. I wonder how they do syncing.
-Their demo video has it running on an Apple iMac! With the logo hidden, ha ha.
-I wonder if it costs more/same/less than the regular Creo version.
-Did PTC use OS technology to build this? Or was it developed separately?
-Will the two products now compete more directly for sales? I could see a company currently using Creo and considering switching to OS now deciding to go to Creo+ instead.
1
Comments
Creo+ is Creo at its core, with additional collaboration functionality along with branching/merging and other features. It is a superset of the functionality that Creo offers, not a partial subset. So, by definition, it is compatible with Creo design files, Windchill, and all the other products a Creo customer might use in their ecosystem.
The way this is accomplished is by using a SaaS enabling technology platform called Atlas, which is derived from Onshape technology. Indeed, Atlas is the foundation to several of the "Plus" products that have been launched in the past years such as Vuforia Expert Capture, Creo Generative Design Extension (GDX), and now Creo+. More here: https://www.ptc.com/en/about/saas-transformation
Onshape, as everyone in this forum is aware, is (and has been from day 1) a cloud-native CAD system with integrated PDM. One may even argue Onshape is a cloud-native PDM system with built-in CAD... So all the benefits that come with Onshape - no files, seamless and secure sharing, versioning, branching/merging, task management, real-time collaboration, no data loss, automatic updates (every 3 weeks!), no installs, no drivers etc. continue to exist.
There will always be overlap between the products, just like you can extrude and fillet in Creo and you can extrude and fillet in Onshape as well. And now some of the additional Onshape features have made their way over into Creo+. Onshape similarly has benefited by other Creo/PTC technology - for example the built-in Simulation and Generative Design (see post by PTC CEO Jim Heppelmann here: https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/20797/liveworks-23).
At the end of the day, Onshape is forging ahead every 3 weeks with unprecedented levels of new feature development, with no glass ceiling on its capabilities. I’m excited for the future (and for the now!) and this is all good for you our customers, and PTC as a company.
Twitter: @BryanLAGdesign
https://www.engineering.com/story/creo-gets-saasy
Twitter: @BryanLAGdesign
So either the marketing video was fake (they showed it running on an iMac), or, the full browser based version is here.
For pricing, I would definitely expect it to be higher than OS. But I wonder if its priced higher than regular Creo (with the same options, of course).
I think the shot of it working on the Mac was faked. Even though it's on an iMac, if you look closely at the screen, the window controls are square buttons on the right side, like what's used by Microsoft Windows.
NX I believe had an official Mac Port around the 2010 time frame, probably explicitly for Apple's use. According to the wiki on it, it only lasted 5 or so years, and its officially dead now. I don't know if that's true.
It would be cool if Apple switched to OS. But probably too big an undertaking for them. Who knows.
Onshape is not only a cloud app but it's a very good cloud app. They've set the bar really high for the next person trying write a cad app in the cloud.
At the heart of any cloud app is the client, the browser. Onshapes browser is better than anything we had inside windows on a desktop and a major reason we like it.
Client browser advancements bettering the desktop:
-drag n drop is more powerful and better implemented
-cut n paste works great
-selections are fast and easy to perform
-and my favorite, its asynchronous
PTC talked about, but not promised, the creo 'thin' client. This is what we need to watch for and encourage. A cloud version of creo will be a browser client hopefully written by the guys who wrote Onshape (they know how). The world can have 2 CAD clients.
Since Onshapes client:
-True script is now a standard (Onshape has been upgraded)
-tRPG is taking over sockets
-react has redefined the client's DOM
-more new magic each day
There's many new advancements in the cloud and a new client should be created. Hopefully the guys who built OS will help build the creo client. Could you build a better creo in a browser? OS has already done it once, the answer is yes.
Keep a eye open for the new creo client, that's going to make history.
I've never thought of Pro/E as a unix app. It could run on almost anywhere except windows '95.
Pro/e was written in C/C++ and probably fortran which ran under POSIX. The kernal "granite" was written in fortran which has probably been re-written in C/C++. All this works because of POSIX.
Linux, OSX & Windows all support POSIX which allowed PRO/E to run everywhere. It was a selling point back in the day that PRO/E could run on anything.
PRO/E running in windows under POSIX was so fast, 2 to 3 times faster than SW '95 but people wanted drag & drop instead. Speed was never an issue between PRO/E & SW '95. I suspect PTC has switched to C# making creo impossible to leave the windows desktop.
I think Atlas is server based and will support the server side requirements for PTC for a long time. Servers talking to servers no matter where they're located (amazon, azure, GCP).
Will creo have it's own servers talking to Atlas? Probably.
Will creo ever have a client and servers? I hope so.
Will Satya Nadella hybrid cloud survive? Probably not.
You all know and love Onshape - newer, cloud native, collaborative, browser-based, etc., etc. Onshape is climbing the functionality curve very quickly with releases every 3 weeks and everybody on the latest version. Awesome stuff. Meanwhile, you probably know that Creo - formerly known as Pro/E which was the original 3D parametric CAD system that started this whole industry - is a mature, high-end CAD with a large, happy, and loyal user base. Among the "big" CAD systems, Creo has enjoyed the highest growth rate 4 years in a row now (sorry for the dust SolidWorks, Catia, NX, Inventor). Creo is very much alive and well, here is a recent proof point This 3D-Printed Microturbine Engine Is Designed To Do More Than Fly (forbes.com) .
You can imagine Creo users are envious of the cloud capabilities of Onshape, but on the other hand they really don't want to switch CAD systems because they have years or even decades worth of data and experience in the Creo world, and many processes built around Creo. Perhaps Onshape users are a little envious of some of the advanced capabilities of Creo, too. For example, the new Creo composites capabilities are awesome, as is the advanced 3D printing tech that drove the microturbine. We believe we can best serve everybody with 2 great products. So our Creo+ strategy aims to make Creo as SaaSy as possible while preserving 100% upward compatibility so Creo users can bring ALL of their data forward with no issue, just as they always have. That is a powerful statement to make, but realistically a serious constraint on what we can do with Creo+, too. Creo+ and Windchill+ are built on Atlas, which was derived from Onshape (and still managed by an Onshape guy, BTW). While the infrastructure differs, the application-level capabilities of Creo+ and Creo share the same code base, and therefore evolve together. Composites for example, was delivered in both versions simultaneously. Basically a version of Creo is built for Windows and a version built for Atlas, much as we used to do with UNIX and Windows before UNIX workstations faded away. Creo+ is a superset of Creo (Creo plus the cloud stuff), and will over time gain more and more new features that can really only be delivered in cloud, like the simultaneous collaboration with branching and merging a la Onshape that was shown at LiveWorx. But we have customers who aren't ready for cloud yet and thus we will not hold the on-premise version of Creo back artificially. Like Office 365, Creo+ it is a desktop client centrally managed so users stay current. That is how Fusion 360 works, BTW, so Fusion 360 is akin to Creo+ rather than Onshape. A browser version of Creo+ is in the works, too.
In parallel, we have been and will continue migrating Creo advanced functionality to Onshape. You've already seen it in Onshape simulation and other places like AR publishing, and a huge installment is headed your way when we deliver generative in Onshape (which I've reviewed numerous times now and can promise it is awesome!). Creo+ and Onshape are both part of the PTC team, and more tech sharing will follow over time.
I fully believe Onshape and Creo will both be alive and well decades from now, and both will be market leaders. They will share a lot of code, but will have important differences and focus on somewhat different objectives. Sort of like a sedan, an SUV, and a pickup truck are all just automobiles that provide transportation, but with important nuances that attract different buyers. The differentiation will NOT be high-end versus low-end as it is at Dassault and Siemens, because there is no glass ceiling for Onshape and we want both products to be very advanced and powerful. The simple answer is that we want to focus Onshape/Arena on Agile Product Development (i.e., develop hardware like you develop software using Scrum, etc.) while Creo/Windchill focus more on "platforms" (i.e., companies that have broad portfolios of products that share many common elements and therefore configuration management rules the day and drives the CAD system). Maybe some users will switch from Creo to Onshape as time goes on, or vice versa, but our goal is that far more will switch from Solidworks and other systems that simply lack the magic that Onshape and Creo share via Atlas. The point is Creo and Onshape are not merging together (no Chevy El Camino in our future) and neither is going away. Not now, not ever.
If this intrigues you, take a spin through my recent LiveWorx keynote where I spell out PTC's strategy in detail, including where Onshape fits, see https://www.ptc.com/en/resources/liveworx-on-demand/path-to-the-future-products-in-the-age-of-transformation . I think you will like it!
Jim Heppelmann
CEO, PTC
Romeo
I am very impressed with how PTC has evolved over the past 25 years. Your company's breadth of services surpasses just the design phase, and it is mind-boggling to try to take it all in. I enjoyed LiveWorx.
I am a fan of the cloud and have been programming in it for some time. I was shocked to learn that these guy were going to bring us the first cloud-based CAD software, and I was even more surprised when I was allowed to be involved in the very beginning. The team did a great job.
I am envious of CREO's MBD capabilities. We have a fantastic 3D modeler, but we still have to document in 2D as if we were at a drafting board. I hope that MBD will be added to Onshape soon.
I still think that the cloud has a ways to go. Why aren't vendors supplying geometry in Onshape? They could publish it for the price of a license. Why do I have to build assemblies that work? Step has to go, it's a terrible solid model translator. Give me native assemblies containing all the metadata so that my BOMs are correct. Vendors should want to do this because they could see that 500 linear motors are currently in engineering designs around the world. What a great forecasting tool, why isn't it happening? Collaboration is more than two engineers moving holes around on a plate.
The future is going to be fun.