Anyone using a (PRO) 3D printer?

caradon

Are any of you using a 3D printer in-house?

I'm seriously looking into getting the Roland monoFab combo package:
* ARM-10 3D printer
* SRM-20 milling machine

The nice thing about the SRM-20 is that it can work with STL. So no CAM progamming. Just perfect for rapid prototyping.
both of these machines are very well built and look sleek. Especially as a duo.

Which machine(s) do you guys have?

Dries

kevin_quigley

Stratasys U Print

WRT using STL for machining, most of the cheaper desktop mills on the market have CAM software that allow this. A lot of the high end CAM systems also allow machining from STL files as well.

but hey, I'm loathe to mention CAM in case you know who appears online....you know, the Voldermot of CADCAM

kevin_quigley

Few things to note...

1. Consumer and low cost printers can be notoriously unreliable for repeatable printing. Prior to installing the U print we trialled multiple consumer machines and every single one had issues with accuracy when printing mating parts. Over the 6 months of our trial period  the print failure rate on prototype parts (as opposed to twirly vases) was running at over 70%. The U Print "only" has 0.254mm layers but it is reliable and prints accurately, and to be honest the finish with 0.254mm layers is very similar to a Makerbot or Ultimaker at 0.1mm (you need to see to appreciate that). The other thing is, printing FDM at sub 0.1mm layers takes a long long time!

2. If you want to fiddle with a printer then consumer ones can be dialled in to give good results on certain types of geometries. The benefit of a Pro level machine is that a lot of that fiddling is automatic (self calibrating, replaceable print beds, more automation etc). One of the guys who works here built his own RepRap printer and he bemoans the lack of "flexibility" with the U print, but then he is a geek :-)

3. The biggest reason for going for a U print or above product though, is dissolvable supports. This basically means you can print anything and forget it. Lift it off the build platform, stick it in the tank, a few hrs later, you have the cleaned part. This was our main reason for going U Print level. None of the consumer machines have this capability (or at least a capability that works reliably or well). This also means you can design for 3D Printing in the knowledge that all the support will go - only powder based systems offer similar. SLA / DLP builds in one material, so you always have to remove supports and the build orientation has a great effect on the build quality.

I resisted getting 3D printing in house for years, simply because I didn't want the hassle of fiddling with the printer, but in the end I got fed up waiting for a pro level machine at a consumer level price and jumped. There is no going back now. The next investment will likely be a SLA or DLP machine for doing high resolution small parts primarily for pre mould phases.One of the most exciting areas we are looking at right now is printing mould inserts on a Objet Eden and using those inserts in a "proper" injection moulding insert tool. We are running some trials next month on some parts which up till now would have needed a development tool. With the printed inserts we are looking at doing maybe 100 impressions per set in PP, incorporating near production standard living hinges and tear off strips - things that cannot be done with 3D printing or CNC.

There will be some interesting developments in the CNC world this year. But I can't say more :-)

kevin_quigley

Stratasys U Print

WRT using STL for machining, most of the cheaper desktop mills on the market have CAM software that allow this. A lot of the high end CAM systems also allow machining from STL files as well.

but hey, I'm loathe to mention CAM in case you know who appears online....you know, the Voldermot of CADCAM

caradon

KevinQuigley said:

...
most of the cheaper desktop mills on the market have CAM software that allow this. A lot of the high end CAM systems also allow machining from STL files as well.
...

Thanks for the info, Kevin!
Well, call me stupid, but I did not know that.
Any suggestions on great desktop mills besides the Roland range?

Btw, I think I know what specimen you speak of.

Dries

traveler_hauptman

I bought an isel icv 4030 for a research group a couple years ago. good German quality. performance as good as one could expect from an aluminum frame machine. it doesn't handle liquid coolant and the spindle I selected could not turn slow enough for cutting steel (I did do a couple steel parts on it, one using a cutoff wheel, another with a 1mm dia till). it had no problem with aluminum. adding a tool changer was key. I would recommend it but if you have room and 5k more you should get a surplus big boy's cnc machine

traveler_hauptman

I am not a fan of stereo lithography prototyping (which the Roland appears to be). all the ones I've used degrade in sunlight and over time. fine for tomorrow's design meeting, crap for working prototypes. I've used a stratasys dimension machine (abs) quite a bit. good results. it seemed to need an on-site tech support visit every 6 months or so. don't forget to wear safety goggles if you are breaking off the support material instead of dissolving it.

Ben_

If you are looking at a FDM style. Then go for a cheapie consumer model. The quality of my Delta printer easily matches the pro versions and cost me a few hundred.

kevin_quigley

Few things to note...

1. Consumer and low cost printers can be notoriously unreliable for repeatable printing. Prior to installing the U print we trialled multiple consumer machines and every single one had issues with accuracy when printing mating parts. Over the 6 months of our trial period  the print failure rate on prototype parts (as opposed to twirly vases) was running at over 70%. The U Print "only" has 0.254mm layers but it is reliable and prints accurately, and to be honest the finish with 0.254mm layers is very similar to a Makerbot or Ultimaker at 0.1mm (you need to see to appreciate that). The other thing is, printing FDM at sub 0.1mm layers takes a long long time!

2. If you want to fiddle with a printer then consumer ones can be dialled in to give good results on certain types of geometries. The benefit of a Pro level machine is that a lot of that fiddling is automatic (self calibrating, replaceable print beds, more automation etc). One of the guys who works here built his own RepRap printer and he bemoans the lack of "flexibility" with the U print, but then he is a geek :-)

3. The biggest reason for going for a U print or above product though, is dissolvable supports. This basically means you can print anything and forget it. Lift it off the build platform, stick it in the tank, a few hrs later, you have the cleaned part. This was our main reason for going U Print level. None of the consumer machines have this capability (or at least a capability that works reliably or well). This also means you can design for 3D Printing in the knowledge that all the support will go - only powder based systems offer similar. SLA / DLP builds in one material, so you always have to remove supports and the build orientation has a great effect on the build quality.

I resisted getting 3D printing in house for years, simply because I didn't want the hassle of fiddling with the printer, but in the end I got fed up waiting for a pro level machine at a consumer level price and jumped. There is no going back now. The next investment will likely be a SLA or DLP machine for doing high resolution small parts primarily for pre mould phases.One of the most exciting areas we are looking at right now is printing mould inserts on a Objet Eden and using those inserts in a "proper" injection moulding insert tool. We are running some trials next month on some parts which up till now would have needed a development tool. With the printed inserts we are looking at doing maybe 100 impressions per set in PP, incorporating near production standard living hinges and tear off strips - things that cannot be done with 3D printing or CNC.

There will be some interesting developments in the CNC world this year. But I can't say more :-)

pete_yodis

Statasys Fortus 250 (FDM)

I second Kevin's comments.  We waited for a professional level machine because we didn't want to fuss with Makerbots, and etc...  We like to print every piece of our product and take it through the manufacturing process ahead of time to flush out improvements ahead of tooling investments.  The changes are then fed back into the product.  We prototype the process, if you will.

caradon

Well, we just decided to go for the Roland combo: ARM-10 + SRM-20.
Too good a deal to pass up!
I think the machines elevate each other...

Dries

kevin_quigley

Be very interested to hear how you get on with that combo Dries. You should get in touch with Al Dean as he has been trying them out recently.

caradon

KevinQuigley said:

Be very interested to hear how you get on with that combo Dries. You should get in touch with Al Dean as he has been trying them out recently.

I've poked him in twitterspace.

Dries

kevin_quigley

I noticed that