Clarification in licensing please

kevin_quigley

Just reading through all the forums and blogs now and I came across this on Develop3D:

To clarify the statement: “you get five free projects to work on before you need to start paying”... With Onshape you get as many documents as you like for free. With the free plan, you can simultaneously access 5 documents. It does not change their privacy or limit, only what can be accessed at the same time.

Up until this time it was my impression under the free plan you could have as many documents as you want (up to a file storage limit) but only 5 could be private. So am I misunderstanding this as that comment seems to suggest you can (say) create 100 private documents on Onshape Free, but only edit 5 at a time?

So the question is then, setting aside the file size limits why would you pay? I only edit 1 document at a time now. My perception of the free/paid thing was that you could only HAVE 5 private documents, and any extra you created were public. Whilst you could change documents from private to public to retain the 5 private ones, you had to make that choice. Is this not the case? 

If you can now create 100 private documents then this changes the landscape for the use of Onshape Free quite dramatically.

jakeramsley

Kevin Quigley said:

Up until this time it was my impression under the free plan you could have as many documents as you want (up to a file storage limit) but only 5 could be private. So am I misunderstanding this as that comment seems to suggest you can (say) create 100 private documents on Onshape Free, but only edit 5 at a time?

Your understanding is correct; we will never force you to make your private documents public.  With the Onshape Free plan, you can designate up to 5 private documents as active at a time which enables the document for editing.  We don't limit the number of private inactive documents or public documents that you have.

kevin_quigley

Right, well that's a bombshell then! Are you guys really trying to sell the pro package or not

ilya_mirman

Kevin Quigley said:

Right, well that's a bombshell then! Are you guys really trying to sell the pro package or not

Hi @Kevin Quigley  - yes, we are trying to sell the Professional package (Would love to have you be among the first 1,000, BTW!  )

The "Onshape Plans" video on this page http://www.onshape.com/product-tour explains the differences in the plans.

kevin_quigley

Thanks the video is helpful and very clear. One more question. The Pro plan has a storage limit of 100GB. Based on our use of other systems that equates to about 3-5 months activity. Exactly what happens then? Do we pay more for more space? These are all critical issues that I dont recall we have discussed yet in the pre beta phase.

suggestion...and one I have mentioned before...would be great to tie into something like Dropbox so we could sync Dropbox content to an OnShape document, or possibly utilise unused Dropbox space as an Onshape archive for older files?

john_f_carr

Kevin Quigley said:

Thanks the video is helpful and very clear. One more question. The Pro plan has a storage limit of 100GB. Based on our use of other systems that equates to about 3-5 months activity. Exactly what happens then? Do we pay more for more space? These are all critical issues that I dont recall we have discussed yet in the pre beta phase.

suggestion...and one I have mentioned before...would be great to tie into something like Dropbox so we could sync Dropbox content to an OnShape document, or possibly utilise unused Dropbox space as an Onshape archive for older files?

Onshape storage may not grow at the same rate as other systems.   You can see storage use on the "Manage account" page.  Is it growing as fast as you expect?

kevin_quigley

Pretty similar by the looks of it, and given the nature of the single document and ability to containerise project files (so we might typically include renders, pdfs, office files etc) this is likely to fill up quickly...so again, the question is what happens when you get over 100GB?

jonathan_stedman

The five free 'live' documents seems a great idea, and after that you juggle your projects.  - its  seems a very fair offer.  

I can see once OS is used in anger I will quickly hit the '5' limit as I compartmentalize projects and assemblies and figure out how to link documents together.  Or will linking documents  by sharing assemblies  and parts between documents slow things down - speed and stability wise?  Will it be better to keep whole projects in one document?  

Can OS give a steer on what way to proceed and what to look out for in terms of file size/component number/complexity? I know there will be no fixed rules but after working for a while one gets a feel for these things.  Any steer would be helpful.

Regards

Jon 

jonathan_stedman

oops - did not look close enough - sharing between documents looks difficult.  Had assumed one could.  I presume there is some sort of 'library' system of Onshape parts in the pipeline. 

Jon

caradon

Jonathan_Stedman said:

...
I presume there is some sort of 'library' system of Onshape parts in the pipeline. 

Jon

Has to come.
However, I'm wondering how the '5 active documents' model will hold up once you start cross-referencing parts in different documents.
Could become confusing to the user.

Dries

brucebartlett

All you've got @Jonathan_Stedman is a copy and paste tab feature, no external document references yet, hopefully we see this soon. That is cross document, part and assembly sharing. Maybe the free licence will become harder to use when this is in place.  

jonathan_stedman

yes - I think it will soon be easier to pay the $100 :-)  .  But for getting to use add try for free and for students just doing perhaps 2-5 projects it will be great.

caradon

Jonathan_Stedman said:

yes - I think it will soon be easier to pay the $100 :-)  .  But for getting to use add try for free and for students just doing perhaps 2-5 projects it will be great.

My dad runs a small metal workshop. Stairs, interiors, gates... you name it. Just occasionally he would benefit from a CAD tool for more complex and intricate jobs. Or when customers expect a pretty picture on their quotation.
Onshape will be PERFECT for him (when drawings are released).

Dries

jakeramsley

Jonathan_Stedman said:

oops - did not look close enough - sharing between documents looks difficult.  Had assumed one could.  I presume there is some sort of 'library' system of Onshape parts in the pipeline. 

Jon

Yes, we are working with partners to get libraries of parts and materials into Onshape.

jakeramsley

Thank you all for your comments and interest in the Onshape Free plan.  It is important to us that we keep it full functionality in terms of a CAD system and as a result understand it will be the perfect plan for some users.  We don't want to create a system that is so unbearably hard to use unless the user pays; users on the Onshape Free plan are first class citizens and their experience matters.

For a personal anecdote, when I graduated college I wanted to continue using CAD to model, design, and build up my portfolio but my options were limited.  I had been using NX in school with a student license that I wasn't supposed to be using once I graduated and I didn't have a mechanical job directly out of college.  The result was I had no system to model on and my options were to buy a personal license (expensive and scary), pirate/steal a copy (morally opposed), or go CAD-less (easiest least ideal).  I essentially went a couple years without doing any CAD, opting to go pen and paper for my personal projects, when something like the Onshape Free plan would have been perfect for me.  This is why I am so excited for our Onshape Free plan.

Jonathan_Stedman said:

I can see once OS is used in anger I will quickly hit the '5' limit as I compartmentalize projects and assemblies and figure out how to link documents together.  Or will linking documents  by sharing assemblies  and parts between documents slow things down - speed and stability wise?  Will it be better to keep whole projects in one document?  

We are designing Onshape with the idea that you can keep everything related to the document in that document, but that doesn't mean it is the only way to do it.  I expect our users to explore and determine what is the best workflow for them and design that way.  We should be encouraging diversity in design and not pigeon hole you down a certain path.

Jonathan_Stedman said:

Can OS give a steer on what way to proceed and what to look out for in terms of file size/component number/complexity? I know there will be no fixed rules but after working for a while one gets a feel for these things.  Any steer would be helpful.

On my test account, I've been a user since July and have used between 10 and 15GB of data with about 200 documents.  However, the size of documents vary based on the number of tabs in them, whats uploaded, how complex the part studios are, etc.  My best suggestion would be to use the system and periodically look at your account details via Manage Account and check your storage used.  You can best estimate based on your goals and workflows how much storage you would need.

ilya_mirman

Kevin Quigley said:

The Pro plan has a storage limit of 100GB. Based on our use of other systems that equates to about 3-5 months activity. Exactly what happens then? Do we pay more for more space? These are all critical issues that I dont recall we have discussed yet in the pre beta phase.

Hi Kevin  - When customers exceed the 100GB limit, Onshape will work in good faith with the customer to find an economical solution.  Today, 100% of users are below this limit, and 99.9% are orders of magnitude lower.  

That said, of course there'll be exceptions, and I am confident we can satisfy those customers.

caradon

Ilya Mirman said:

Kevin Quigley said:

The Pro plan has a storage limit of 100GB. Based on our use of other systems that equates to about 3-5 months activity. Exactly what happens then? Do we pay more for more space? These are all critical issues that I dont recall we have discussed yet in the pre beta phase.

Hi @Kevin Quigley  - When customers exceed the 100GB limit, Onshape will work in good faith with the customer to find an economical solution.  Today, 100% of users are below this limit, and 99.9% are orders of magnitude lower.  

That said, of course there'll be exceptions, and I am confident we can satisfy those customers.

Also, doesn't storage get cheaper every week?
I imagine the 100GB limit today might be irrelevant in 2 years time.
Bring on quantum storage!

Dries

billy2

100GB is a lot of data. My backup hard drive doesn't have that much data on it. I don't save a lot of back revisions though. I can't stand trying to figure out which folder I should be using. I usually backup one good folder for a project.

I would imagine with OS's versioning, you don't need to copy versions to different folders creating a non-linear expansion of data usage.  

I guess I don't see 100GB being an issue.

kevin_quigley

Sorry but 100GB is a big issue (pardon the pun). Here in our little 2.5 man office with 2 seats of SolidWorks and multiple other systems we generate around 20GB of new data every week. Furthermore we need to keep our old files available..just today had a customer asking to mod a product we designed 12 years ago. 

So think about this for a moment. 12 years worth of data that needs to be accessed. That is (looking at the hard drive pile) around 2.5 TB of data (of varying sorts). 

At 100GB per user, does that 100GB follow the Dropbox ethos of when you share a file that file gets added to your usage? If so that effectively means 100GB per company. That is nowhere near enough guys.

what bothers me is this. I start now at $100 a month for 100GB and in 5 years Im needing to access 1TB of data. How much will that cost me....for every single user account? 

Sorry these are important issues that need answers.

kevin_quigley

Been discussing this more tonight and I can see this is a big issue for all cloud systems. How does OnShape handle long and medium term data storage, archival and access? 

So questions:

1. How will you tackle longer term data build up? For current non cloud systems we can simply buy more hard drives, upload to DropBox, Box, Google Drive etc. when a job comes up that needs data access on (say) a 6 yr old file it is just a question of locating it and opening it.
2. Data usage. When you share a 1GB file (say), does that file then become part of the sharer's usage allowance as well as your own? If so what about company use, where most of the files will be shared between all users.
3. Long term data storage. Do we have the options to duplicate online storage of our files to a non OnShape server? I think I suggested some time ago linking up with the likes of DropBox. Even if this was only for usage allowance control it would useful.
4. The free system allows 5 active files. Maybe another way to look at data usage is to allow 100GB of active files, and the user chooses which is active and which are archived/dormant.