splines - thanks for the enhancement, now a few more annoyances

mark_biasotti

Thanks you for finally enabling the ability to add and delete interim spline points today. This will go a long way in making the Spline tool more useful.  I do however have a few more things about it that are still annoying:

1. Why is the spline  tool buried underneath the arc tool? Spline has nothing to do with arcs as do polygons or sketch points. The only reason I can think for doing this is for the next year or two, OnS users won't be using the spline tool much, but then again this can be a self-perpetuating problem in that these other tools are hidden from the user when they are in the sketcher. I think it is a silly ploy to bury tools into hierarchy too much in the name of UI simplicity.
2. the termination method (finish spline) of double-click or escape key is flawed. Double-click will never work well because users who use splines when placing a multi-point spline are not thinking ahead (quick enough)  to which point they place will be there last. Maybe it's me, but I'm just not that quick-on-the-draw. And having to reach for the keyboard (or worse yet on mobile) for the escape key to finish the spline is laborious. Why not just put "Finish Spline" on that RMB pop-up.
3. Long standing request - you need to make the interim spline points and the magnitude/vector handle nodes unique from one another. It is still very confusing to understand the magnitude/vector nodes from the interim spline points (Often times you can not see the magnitude/vector handle in a default spline placement.)
4. Don't spend too much more time on your basic spline (perhaps get the UI and workflow right) and get busy on Bezier spline which designers will appreciate much more. I rarely use thru-point spline anymore in SW and had hind-sight been 20/20 and I had the chance to influence back in '97 would have lobbied to do Bezier over Modify B-spline thu-point type currently SW.

Ahh, one more thing. Is it just me, or do others still have a difficult time discerning the sketch dimension tool in the sketch tool bar?  I don't know what it is but I'm pausing more than I should just to identify my dimension tool. It could have to do with the design of the actual icon, using a horizontal dimension type as it's icon - perhaps a diagonal dimension leader would grab the eye better. I think the partitioning of the toolbars in Ons is too subtle and this too has, I believe, a lot to do with it.

Mark

david_sohlstrom

The dimension tool is a problem for me also. I find myself hitting the mirror to in error.

Dave

jakeramsley

Hi Mark,

Mark Biasotti said:

Why is the spline  tool buried underneath the arc tool? Spline has nothing to do with arcs as do polygons or sketch points. The only reason I can think for doing this is for the next year or two, OnS users won't be using the spline tool much, but then again this can be a self-perpetuating problem in that these other tools are hidden from the user when they are in the sketcher. I think it is a silly ploy to bury tools into hierarchy too much in the name of UI simplicity.

Onshape uses a responsive design that collapses and collects tools as the width of the browser decreases.  When Onshape is fully expanded, the spline and the spline point tool are categorized together as their own tool.  We have no intent of trying to hide features.

Mark Biasotti said:

the termination method (finish spline) of double-click or escape key is flawed. Double-click will never work well because users who use splines when placing a multi-point spline are not thinking ahead (quick enough)  to which point they place will be there last. Maybe it's me, but I'm just not that quick-on-the-draw. And having to reach for the keyboard (or worse yet on mobile) for the escape key to finish the spline is laborious. Why not just put "Finish Spline" on that RMB pop-up.

This is a good idea, I will log an improvement for this. 

Mark Biasotti said:

Long standing request - you need to make the interim spline points and the magnitude/vector handle nodes unique from one another. It is still very confusing to understand the magnitude/vector nodes from the interim spline points (Often times you can not see the magnitude/vector handle in a default spline placement.)

This is something we are looking into while we work on improving splines.  

caradon

Mark Biasotti said:

Don't spend too much more time on your basic spline (perhaps get the UI and workflow right) and get busy on Bezier spline which designers will appreciate much more. I rarely use thru-point spline anymore in SW and had hind-sight been 20/20 and I had the chance to influence back in '97 would have lobbied to do Bezier over Modify B-spline thu-point type currently SW.

+1 Amen!
Give me some Bezier love, please...
In my experience with SOLIDWORKS, many users develop sloppy sketching (and subsequently: surfacing) techniques because the B-spline tool is so easily abused. Yes, I'm talking about you, +20-point spline...

Mark Biasotti said:

Ahh, one more thing. Is it just me, or do others still have a difficult time discerning the sketch dimension tool in the sketch tool bar?  I don't know what it is but I'm pausing more than I should just to identify my dimension tool. It could have to do with the design of the actual icon, using a horizontal dimension type as it's icon - perhaps a diagonal dimension leader would grab the eye better. I think the partitioning of the toolbars in Ons is too subtle and this too has, I believe, a lot to do with it.

On desktop, I just always hit 'D' by now. Much faster.
I understand it can be problematic on mobile... I have had to look for the dimension icon also, occasionally.

Dries

brucebartlett

Sketch Dimension is a problem for me too. I all ways go the start of the toolbar looking for it. I now only use the "d" quick key. 

douglas_1

Mark, I couldn't agree more.  I hate the current Onshape splines.  I NEED bezier or control polygon ASAP!  It's pretty awesome that you provide OS with this type of feedback.  Solidworks WAS lucky enough to be able to pay you for this insight. 

andrew_troup

1) Dimensioning icon is a bit self-effacing, I agree with Matt

2) Bezier splines, particularly in 3D sketches, Yes Please with cherries on

3) I also agree that it's worth putting a lot of emphasis on easy and elegant termination of element creation.
Too often, this aspect of CAD packages reminds me of a Tintin episode, where an occupant of a plane removes a sticking plaster, only to have it get stuck to his other hand. (IIRC he eventually flaps it off only to get stuck on another passenger's finger. It migrates around the cabin in this fashion causing havoc, eventually finding its way to the cockpit, where it causes the pilot to crash the plane.) 

3dcad

I would really like to find dimensioning from right-click menu in every workspace. And also be able to move sketch points in degrees of freedom even though dimensioning tool is selected.

At the moment I feel a bit uncomfortable with clicking tools on and off, I would prefer 'select' tool which would turn off whatever tool I had and let's me select/move things manually.

mark_biasotti

@JakeRamsley

Onshape uses a responsive design that collapses and collects tools as the width of the brow...

Okay - did not know that, that is clever - but I was on my MacBook pro at full res and look like there was white space to the right of my sketch tools  Below is a screen shot:



Mark

3dcad

@Mark Biasotti  it might need just a little more room to show all tools. It's either collapsed or full, not filling one by one - that's why it looks like there is a lot of white space.

Collapsed and full, window width difference only few mm:

mark_biasotti

@3dcad  
seems like it is only glass-half-empty or glass-half-full to me. I'm not so impressed by this feature if it is only in two states. I think it could lead to confusion, not to mention what happens when customization comes in?

Mark

3dcad

@Mark Biasotti  Just wait until OnS 'allow' us to begin requesting stuff into settings, quite a few things in mind already.. and possibility to set collapse on/off goes to the list too.