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Main assembly

john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
All my documents are public. I assume they can be opened and viewed by all.
In my Documents, there are 2 sub assemblies, ROBOT and ROBOT 2.
This is what I would like to do.
1-Create new assembly named ROBOT MAIN
2-Insert ROBOT and ROBOT 2 into it
3-Mate ROBOT and ROBOT 2 at the holes in ROBOT per Sketch 8 and similar holes in ROBOT 2 (Part 1 <13>)

I have been interacting with the Support for many days how to do it. I have obtained quick response but the information was incomplete,
vague and sometimes not true.
I tend to believe Cody Armstrong`s statement in his last presentation. Assemblies in ONSHAPE are created mainly for items having motion.
Well...I engineer and design systems consisting of multiple sub assemblies .It is essential that I insert sub assemblies into main assemblies
quickly and efficiently.
I would appreciate if someone could show me how I can accomplish the above. No words please..SHOW ME.
Thank you very much

Comments

  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,245
    If you would share your document with [email protected] I would be more than willing to have a look :)
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    @john_brodowski If you could provide a link to your public model when requesting assistance it would be a lot easier to help you. You can simply copy the link from your browser's address bar when you have the document open and paste into your post.

    Link looks something like this:
    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/75b863b1b99b44a9adfe592b/w/c21d5e27e5974daab39be3d1/e/b8c0339e05e44d0ebe31d205

    We are all busy though willing to help, it's not time well spent crawling through public documents to find yours.

    //rami
  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    edited October 2015
    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/62918b876d724ceb9ebcf15e/w/b637d83a585a43efac7fe620/e/14d7b76172bf490c941de20d
     https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d1ba9cf350654e5bb45c5420/w/365afc68338a4173a31162f7/e/6dfe21a117bf450e9bfd73dc
    Links to ROBOT and ROBOT 2.
    I am trying to create new ROBOT MAIN assembly and insert ROBOT and ROBOT 2 into it and then mate them.
    I have noticed that only PARTS can be copied to CLIP BOARED.
    I could not copy assembly into CLIP BOARD.
    If I could, both ROBOT and ROBOT 2 could be placed in the TABS of ROBOT MAIN assembly, then both would appear in the PARTS
    and ASSEMBLY listing.
    I have used EXPORT and IMPORT to create ROBOT 2. I am not sure that is the right way to do it, but I could not do it any other way
    I am used to using SAFE AS commend. It is a very simple way to modify parts and assemblies without changing the originals, and insert them into 
    any part of system or subsystem assemblies.
    I do not want to create one big assembly in the PARTS STUDIO. I want to create main assembly and insert all the sub assembly easily
    and seamlessly. 
  • Narayan_KNarayan_K Member Posts: 379 ✭✭✭
    @ john_brodowski, Instead of making different documents you can make all in single document.you can also make all sub-assemblies in one document and bring them it to another assembly studio in same document(say main assembly).
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,245
    @john_brodowski - I note that you are referring to two different documents. While i could show you how to do this, once I have copied the data from one document to another, they will be non-associative (meaning that a change in document 1 will not propagate to document 2). Of course we WILL have inter-document referencing. If you tell me that this will work for you now, then I am happy to show you. If not, then I suggest building projects in single documents until we have inter-document referencing.
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    Thank you for your response
    The principle ability of all presently existing 3D modeling and design software is to save one document, (file)change it if required without changing the  
    original and use it in many different systems, sub systems or assemblies. You are calling it "inter document referencing"
    How could you miss such an important ability in ONSHAPE.?
    Designing large system consisting of many assemblies in one document is very inefficient.
    It requires assembling each assembly individually in one document. System consisting let say 1000 parts and assemblies is virtually impossible
    to do that way.

    You have not made a comment about inability to "COPY to CLIP BOARD " assemblies . Only individual parts can be copied and inserted into TABs
    in different documents.
    If assemblies could be copied to CLIP BOARED , edited and be inserted into a new document you could achieve kind of "inter document referencing.

  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,245
    edited October 2015
    John - I am not sure how you think that we "would have missed such an important ability".
    If you check out the Onshape team page, this is the dream team of CAD who's who's and we have the hindsight of having done this previously when we wrote SolidWorks.

    Onshape will be the preeminent professional grade CAD, cloud or otherwise.  We are cranking out new functionality at a prodigious rate (the next release is likely to be this Friday) and will get to everything in the order that maximizes the most number of people's ability to get their work done.

    Soap box stand aside - the answer to your question is that until we have inter-document referencing, the work around is to export the assembly as parasolid directly into a new tab and then with the next click, translate it back as a single part studio making sure to select the 'flatten' option. This new tab can now be copied and pasted into the target document. Once in the target document, these components (individually or en-mass) can be inserted into any other assembly or derived into any existing part studio.

    So the bottom line is that even though it's far from perfect, it's entirely possible to do what you're asking.

    Thank you for your support of Onshape :)

    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭✭
    I for one would hate to see Onshape become another "me, too" MCAD modeler.

    The underlying paradigm is radically different from Pro-E, SolidWorks/Edge, et al,

    It makes no sense to me to try to warp it so it is superficially familiar, as the OP seems to be demanding. 

    Onshape have repeatedly acknowledged the importance of inter-document referencing, and re-committed to getting it right, but it's understandable that they cannot do it by waving a magic wand. A premature, half-baked implementation would be a catastrophe for them and for us.

    It's a really big challenge, because in some ways it's fundamentally incompatible with Onshape's underlying paradigm. One primary focus of that paradigm is to eliminate the need for the type of inter-document referencing which has proved so toxic in the "me too" modelers mentioned earlier.

  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d1ba9cf350654e5bb45c5420/w/365afc68338a4173a31162f7/e/6dfe21a117bf450e9bfd73dc
    The above link is showing 2 assemblies -ROBOT and ROBOT 2.
    In one of my previous posts I have stated that I have done what you are suggesting.
    Maybe I was not clear enough, but
    please look at the above documents and try to manipulate either ROBOT or ROBOT 2 and MATE them with the PART 1<6> in ROBOT and
    PART 1<3> in ROBOT 2
    If you can do it, I would be very happy, please show me how, if you can.
    Please understand, I am not trying to be difficult. I see many good things in ONSHAPE, but I would like resolve the above issue.
  • navnav Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi @john_brodowski if you see the profile of most of the guys around here you`ll see that most of them are Professional CAD users, and they are always willing to help us, that`s why I suggest you be more precise in what you ask: 
    please look at the above documents and try to manipulate either ROBOT or ROBOT 2 and MATE them with the PART 1<6> in ROBOT and
    PART 1<3> in ROBOT 2
    If you can do it, I would be very happy, please show me how, if you can.
    I tried manipulating your assemblies they both lack for starters the appropriate mates, in addition I don`t know were to mate the parts you mention, you need to be more specific, I can only guess.
    Nicolas Ariza V.
    Indaer -- Aircraft Lifecycle Solutions
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,245
    John - i have got you started.

    Things I have learnt from your document.
    1) Part Studio 7 : Part1 : sketch 1 : There are two lines that are 0.4 degrees wrt each other. This kind of stuff will drive you nuts in any system because now mates that should work, mysteriously dont.
    2) The creation of mates in part studios (such as the lead screw) make life a lot easier. Placing the mate connector wrt the origin or some other finite location eliminates a potential problem associated with trying to put one on either the centroid or the arc center of the end of the screw (its not obvious which is right).
    3) The use of groups in any assembly saves a ton of mates. Use groups to associate parts that do not move wrt each other.

    I used a slider mate to allow the carriage to slide along the rail.
    I used a cylindrical mate on the lead screw (2 degrees of freedom) and a screw mate relation to advance the carriage when the screw is turned.
    The screw mate relation has the unique characteristic of only requiring as input one mate (the cylindrical).

    Whenever two mates cannot be simultaneously satisfied, you get mate failures. In this case the fact that the face of the motor mount was not vertical meant than ANY two mates involving this face would fail (true of any system).

    Here is the document that i proved all this out on.

    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/fa2cd9193e44444187b72997/w/b3bdecaa7ef24493b914074c/e/fe3493c125234483a1f1ec98

    Hopefully these insights (and proof), will get you going.
    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • navnav Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭✭
    Is this what you`re after John ?, Philip shared a great solution check out his link.
    Nicolas Ariza V.
    Indaer -- Aircraft Lifecycle Solutions
  • viruviru Member, Developers Posts: 619 ✭✭✭✭
    @john_brodowski , You can create main assembly very fast including robot and robot 2 sub-assembly in single document by below method  as shown in below video. 

     You can also refer below document link for constraining assembly parts.
    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/659e3f6e2c604c9c8d0f3b77/w/fa29116384ae4cd1b35ffb1e/e/e324d091eabb425695af8849





  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    NO ! This is not what I am trying to do. I ma banging my head against the brick wall.
    I am not talking about my sloppy mates and connectors. I would learn  eventually to do it correctly.
    I want to MATE ROBOT and ROBOT 2 in one MAIN ASSEMBLY, as specified in my last post.
    The link below is showing ROBOT and ROBOT 2 assemblies.

    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d1ba9cf350654e5bb45c5420/w/365afc68338a4173a31162f7/e/6dfe21a117bf450e9bfd73dc

    SHOW ME those 2 assemblies MATED in new assembly. No mating part by part, in one document.
    I have no idea why it is so difficult to grasp what I am talking about and trying to do.


    One more thing that is being avoided in the discussions, it is impossible to copy assembly into CLIPBOARD, only individual parts can be copied.
    If assemblies could be copied, then they could be inserted in TAB in any assembly. That would be the easiest way to accomplish what I am trying
    to do.
    Assembly of multiple assemblies would be very easy.


  • michael3424michael3424 Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    Just a comment - it is easier for folks to get the full picture if make all of your related posts in the same thread.  That also makes it easier for them to provide useful answers for you and for other interested parties to learn something themselves.
  • lougallolougallo Member, Administrator, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,658
    I have merged the discussions together here but it is good to keep commenting in the same discussion to keep some flow.
    Lou Gallo / PD/UX - Support - Community / Onshape, Inc.
  • philip_thomasphilip_thomas Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,245
    @john_brodowski - OMG! I do not want you to have to bang your head against a brick wall!
    As I have shown in this thread, I am more than willing (and able!) to fix/solve/explain your problems.
    The most productive route would be for us to talk.
    My direct number is; Tel: 339-204-6988 x4009
    Or, to book time on my calendar - use this link; www.calendly.com/pthomas


    Philip Thomas - Onshape
  • peter_hallpeter_hall Member Posts: 196 ✭✭✭
    Make your sub assemblies, Robot  and Robot 2 in the same document, different assembly tabs in (Doc1) create a new assy tab called Robot Main in same document (Doc1) . Go to insert button whilst in Robot Main and insert your two sub assemblies. (note the two options parts and assemblies at top ofthe insert parts and assemblies buttons. You should now have your two sub assemblies in Robot Main. Chose the relevant mate to mate the two sub assemblies. (These may need to be grouped first to bring them all along when using your mate. As you are mating at the holes presumably fixed mate will do it.
    If that doesn't help you then you need to explain things better as to what you are trying to do and work with the software not at a tangent to it. Alternatively keep banging the head on the wall.........the answer will surely come ! :smile: 
  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    Peter
    Here is a link for a document with 2 sub assemblies in it. ROBOT and ROBOT 2.
    https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d1ba9cf350654e5bb45c5420/w/365afc68338a4173a31162f7/e/6dfe21a117bf450e9bfd73dc
    I have created new document ROBOT MAIN.
    When I tried to insert the 2 sub assemblies into to PARTS and ASSEMBLIES of ROBOT MAIN they were not found.

    Are you telling me that I should create 2 sub assemblies in the same document from scratch, part by part ?
    That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
    I have 2 sub assembly already, all I want to do is to MATE them at specified locations in ROBOT MAIN.
    It would be nice if assemblies could be copied to CLIPBOARD. Only parts can be copied to CLIPBOARD.
    That function would eliminate many steps in order to achieve what I am trying to do. TABS could be used to INSERT any sub assembly into
    main assembly.
    Thank you 
  • _Ðave__Ðave_ Member, Developers Posts: 712 ✭✭✭✭
    @john_brodowski Earlier in the thread @philip_thomas explained that they are working on the functionality that you require.
  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    Thank you , finally I got it !! Yes, he did, somehow I have missed that. All the help  "efforts" were misleading me. Someone should have told me that much earlier, before I " banged my head against the brick wall".
    Functionality I am looking for in ONSHAPE  is available in CREO , it is basic in all the modeling software presently available.
    All the files (documents) reside in CREO folder, all I have to do is to click on the part or assembly in that folder and and insert that in the document
    I am working on.
    SAVE AS function is also very handy. 


  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2015

    Regarding the information that Onshape are working on the functionality being demanded:
    .......Someone should have told me that much earlier, before I " banged my head against the brick wall"......
    At least one other person did try much earlier, which the OP also "somehow has missed"
    andrew_troup said (near the top of this thread)
    ........ 
    Onshape have repeatedly acknowledged the importance of inter-document referencing, and re-committed to getting it right, but it's understandable that they cannot do it by waving a magic wand.
    A premature, half-baked implementation would be a catastrophe for them and for us.
    ........
    and (if my comment is re-read in context) I tried to explain why it made no sense to require Onshape to solve this problem in the same way others have done.
    Which the OP still seems to be advocating for, strenuously.
  • john_brodowskijohn_brodowski Member Posts: 37
    Dear Andrew
    I did not mean to be sarcastic about" the head"  but please understand that for the longest time I was instructed how I could accomplish my end.
    Now I find that it was not possible at this time. I assume full responsibility for it, because I should red posts more carefully.
    I do like many futures in ONSHAPE that CREO does not have and wish ONSHAPE best of luck with new updates.
    Meantime I will learn more ONSHAPE functions.
    Best regards, John

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