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New user questions

john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
edited January 2016 in Community Support
Hello

I am thinking of becoming an Onshape user. First some newbie questions:

1. Just 10 private documents. 
This will be a huge problem for me.

a) Is there any way possible to export my document to my PC?
b) I am planning to use OnShape for 3D Printing so is it possible to export STL files, at least?

Background:
I am an innovator/inventor and I am on a tight budget but happy to pay *something*, however $100/month for the professional version is totally out of the question. (**)


2. Interfacing with other 3D design software
Is it possible to import OnShape files to/from other applications e.g. Sketchup Make,  123D Design, Fusion 360... ?

Thanks

J


(** My budget would be $50 to $100/year absolute max - not $1200 !!)

Best Answer

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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Answer ✓
    :-)
    Yay
    You are correct, and the user manual is not really up to date.
    Yes it would be helpful. 
    Check through the forum ..  Onshape has requested many times user opinions on various features and methods.
    Start a new thread if you must.
    Or send feedback straight to support .. top right question mark ... drop down ...  feedback.

    Thank you for jumping in and splashing about.





Answers

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    3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,470 PRO
    You can import/export your documents in number of types, see help section for further information

    Free version is meant for hobbyists who can benefit from 5GB of free public space (unlimited documents). If you plan to use free version for private documents, 100mb 'demo' limit will be bigger problem than 10 document limit. 10 Onshape documents is comparable to having 10 folders with any number of files in traditional system.

    You can bounce between free and pro monthly, you will always have access to your documents but if your over the limit they will be read only (you can still export).

    With the budget you mentioned you are not thinking the big picture, high-end software like Onshape can't exist on such pricing structure. Have you thought about improving your business a bit, with high-end software you could provide high-end services? IMHO.
    //rami
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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    > You can import/export your documents in number of types, see help section for further information
    a) I can't see any STL export. My understanding is that STL is the best/the standard format for 3D printing
    b) In any case my question is really about how *reliable* it is. (e.g. Sketchup can to amazing things in theory but it keeps leaving holes in it's messes that shouldn't be there. Nighmare!)

    Put it another way - "how good and how widely used is Onshape for 3D printing"?


    > 10 Onshape documents is comparable to having 10 folders with any number of files in traditional system.
    OK, so I can cheerfully have a large number of models within one 'document' without the system crashing/slowing down, yes?

    > Have you thought about improving your business a bit
    Absolutely! However I am where I am - a startup business on a pretty tight budget.  I am also a fairly slow learner so I need to choose the software that I invest my time in wisely....

    To me, Onshape's account structure is deeply flawed..  Personally I would like to start giving *some* money (say $50/year) to any software developer after I get to really love their software - not everything needs to be completely free(!). Have they learn nothing from the world of smartphone apps??!
    Not only would this seem 'fair'...it's actually worse that that: I do not see them staying in business very long if they keep this ("completely free or else completely unaffordable") pricing structure. And for that reason I'm not sure I want to invest my learning time in them.



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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    $50 a year is an insult ! 
    $100 a month is almost giving it away.
    For this type of software $3000/year plus would be a "budget" option in most cases.
    When you have invented your super innovation, I hope you are going to give it away for free! because lets face it ... with so many free apps on a smartphone you couldnt justify charging any money for it.

    Suggest you try out Onshape carefully, paying particular attention  to collaboration, and branching features; and further comparing to similar softwares.

    There are many "freeware" 3D printing apps for print and modelling...  I am sure you already have a multiplatform app for this.. are you just Trolling ?


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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    > I am sure you already have a multiplatform app for this.. are you just Trolling ?
    Absolutely not. "Full disclosure": I am new to 3D printing. I have used Sketchup for about 35 hours, and then watched videos/installed both 123D Design & DesignSpark Mechanical each of which I have then used for a couple of hours.

    > $50 a year is an insult ! 
    This feels like a thinking error. It all depends how many users you get. The incremental cost per additional user is zero (or very close to zero).

    Either way with so much being given away in effect completely free these days, what I am arguing for is after we have invested many hours of our precious time and after we then get to really love something, than and only then should we pay for it. But this level of payment needs to be tiered sensibly, so that small startups and amateurs get to contribute. 

    Back to Onshape.
    After all that time on Sketchup, I have to tell you that this video about Onshape (by Hoffman Engineering) rather blew me away!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQLZ_QJgxc

    HOWEVER please can someone answer questions about: 
    a) sharing data with other 3D applications 
    b) exporting to STL (or similar) for 3D printing use 

    [EDIT: OK, I just discovered that OnSpace does do STL exporting afterall. This is not well documented. Any comments on exactly how reliable it is in practice though?] 


    I am running out of time an need to make some decisions...

    With thanks
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    peter_hallpeter_hall Member Posts: 196 ✭✭✭
    As with any learning you undertake , whether to invest your time in learning has to be your own decision. I have been learning 3D cad through Onshape for nearly six months and now feel I can make a reasonable fist of designing tooling/fixture plates. The package exports and imports well although it can have troubles with imports of surfaces. I seem to need to create solid objects by thickening/extruding to work with some imports.
    Although Onshape has now released and is no longer in the beta stage it still needs further development as a package. Solidworks/catia has more user friendly packages for sheet metal / fabrication and surfaces. Currently if I was designing in a sheet metal shop I would use Solidworks in preference to Onshape.
    Realistically though for free use and/or professional use at $100 a month you will not get a better 3D design package. Fusion 360 may be another package to look at/consider.

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    christopher_quijanochristopher_quijano OS Professional Posts: 50 PRO
    It depends on the complexity of your parts but I would estimate that the free version would allow you to have have ten or so parts. You can always download a Step file of your part, delete it out of Onshape, and then re-upload the Step file when you need to modify the part later. This is not ideal but it saves you money.

    As far as 3D printing goes I have not had any issues with the STL files from Onshape. I have done three projects where I have printed multiple iterations of the parts and all worked without issue on a Stratasys uPrint SE printer.


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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    peter_hall said:
    I seem to need to create solid objects by thickening/extruding to work with some imports.
    Peter - please can you say more about this
    Are the main problems with Onshape relating to importing data?
    What else goes wrong... how often?

    SolidWorks is not an option due to its price. (I am a small cash-strapped startup/amateur)
    Yes - Fusion360 is next on my list to trial.
    [Fwiw, they have a pretty enlightened policy of: "Free for students, enthusiasts, hobbyists, and startups"]

    Call me a dinosaur, but I value my privacy and I find it deeply repugnant that both Fusion360 and Onshape have no save to disk option as such and that they hold all designs in The Cloud. George Orwell... take note!

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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Why dont you try it and find out ?? If you have any problems you can get excellent support by direct browser request with comments and annotations.

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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    You can also ask question here, but I think it better you try then ask, rather than speculate!

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    3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,470 PRO
    edited January 2016
    @john_smith077  For me, your stage of business and values sound like you should trial Geomagic Design. If you don't give value to fact that Onshape doesn't need any installation, your files are always with you, computing is done in cloud rather than requiring the horsepower from your pc and collaboration / versioning is completely built-in - you should go with software like solid face or geomagic design.

    I have used and represented Geomagic since 2006 when it was Alibre, I can tell that it is very good 3d cad with reasonable price - in a long run it is cheaper than Onshape but it requires investment on start. Currently Geomagic is owned by 3Dsystems so it has built-in 3d print functions.

    But today, I would choose Onshape since I don't see any other direction for cad in future than cloud - after Onshape made it possible, any other way just doesn't make sense anymore.

    You told you are a newbie, choose any sketch > part > assembly -based mcad and you will gain skills to use them all. All mainstream software will be able to provide decent platform for you but the real intelligence is needed in front of keyboard. I have spent 15 years cadding more or less and I still think myself as beginner for creating robust models with understandable design intent.

    Onshape is your only path to professional mcad for free, try it, learn it, ask questions, try to answer other beginners questions - this is your best investment since it will provide you the skills to use any mcad.
    //rami
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    michael3424michael3424 Member Posts: 678 ✭✭✭✭
    I sympathize with your desire for a middle tier that is less than $100 per month, but it won't happen for the foreseeable future and probably not at all as Onshape has made abundantly clear in several other threads.  Pleading won't help at all and comparing Onshape to smartphone apps is almost an insult because there are a lot more resources needed to create and improve Onshape than any Smartphone app on the market.  If you buy quickly, you may still be able to get a copy of Cubify, which is a basic version of the Alibre/Geomagic Design that  @3dcad mentioned.  It is intended for 3D printing, so should suit you pretty well.  Cubify runs $200 or so but 3DS, who sells it, is shutting down the Cubify web site soon, if not already, and may no longer sell the product in the future.  It can save parts as STL files, you run it from your own PC, and you save all your files there.  FWIW, I'm using the $2k GeoMagic Design product and find OnShape much more pleasant to work in.

    FWIW, I've designed a few parts with Onshape and 3D-printed them with no problem on a $2k Zortrax M200 FDM printer.  As someone else pointed out you can export your files into several standard CAD file formats like STL, STEP, IGES, Parasolid, Solidworks, and a few others, though you should know that you will lose the history tree with each of those exports.
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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    a) Free access
    It seems Onshape is now out of Beta, however what are the chances of them changing the rules so as to stop us accessing our data for free?
    e.g. On this page https://www.onshape.com/faqs they say:
    "Onshape intends to always offer a Free Plan. We reserve the right to amend the terms of both the Free and Professional Plans."
    Personally I don't find that reassuring. 

    b) Geomagic Design
    I can't see a price for Geomagic Design - which effectively guarantees that I cant afford it.

    c) Development costs
    > comparing Onshape to smartphone apps is almost
    > an insult because there are a lot more resources
    > needed to create and improve Onshape 
    Can you put numbers on that?

    d) Middle Tier Pricing 
    > Pleading won't help at all 
    No, I'm not prepared to plead - I will just not get on board the wrong ship!
    My reasoning is that for small-fry like me, what Onshape is doing, it is simply foolish business management. As things stand, Onshape will never, ever, EVER get any money out of me (at least not until such time as I am turning over well over $100K+ using their software). They will be missing out on getting any revenue from the the 10s, 100s of thousands of users like me - numbers which will continue to grow dramatically with the advent of cheaper better 3D printers. If Onshape wish to be foolish it's up to them. My concern is that it may bankrupt them and then what? (That's right they have all your master data!)

    d) Fusion 360
    I have now installed and am trialing Fusion 360 (full use of which is completely free for "students, enthusiasts, hobbyists, and startups"... "for as long as you need it").

    I hadn't appreciated how parametric Fusion is. I have to say it looks promising albeit with a rather cluttered/complicated interface.

    Can anyone tell me how Fusion 360 compares with OnShape in practice? (if one assumes a good internet connection)  For now, I have little or no need for collaboration tools, nor working from mobile devices. 

  • Options
    brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor, User Group Leader Posts: 2,137 PRO
    Interesting results.

    http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2015/11/25/surprising-things-learned-cloud-cad-software-survey-results/


    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    John said
    "Can anyone tell me how Fusion 360 compares with OnShape in practice? (if one assumes a good internet connection)  For now, I have little or no need for collaboration tools, nor working from mobile devices."

    You have answered your own concerns there. Onshape is not the software for you. Try FreeCAD and Blender.

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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    Lumen said:
    John said
    "Can anyone tell me how Fusion 360 compares with OnShape in practice? (if one assumes a good internet connection)  For now, I have little or no need for collaboration tools, nor working from mobile devices."

    You have answered your own concerns there. Onshape is not the software for you. Try FreeCAD and Blender.

    Re Blender - Everyone seems to say that despite it's widespread use, that Blender has a steep learning curve.

    Are there no other substantive benefits to Onshape beyond collaboration and working on mobiles?

    Meanwhile I have started installed Fusion which has a rather cluttered interface and is probably over-kill for my needs, but given that it is "Free for students, enthusiasts, hobbyists, and startups"  "for as long as you need it" it is worth evaluating.  If I fall out with Fusion, FreeCAD will be next on my list.



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    dennis_20dennis_20 Member Posts: 87 EDU
    @john_smith077 Check out this article:  https://www.onshape.com/cad-blog/7-features-of-full-cloud-cad-you-wont-find-in-desktop-installed-cad



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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    Yes - all that collaboration stuff is very cool, no question. 

    At this point I am working on my own on a new product innovation/invention and secrecy is imporant and collaboration isn't required.


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    dennis_20dennis_20 Member Posts: 87 EDU
    @john_smith077 ,  Out of that article listing seven different points you only saw collaboration?  I wish you luck on your endeavors with other software.  Onshape is apparently not for you.  Good by.
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    michael3424michael3424 Member Posts: 678 ✭✭✭✭
    1) Geomagic Design is $2k plus $400/year maintenance - look at Cubify instead, which runs $200 or so.
    2) There are no guarantees in life, OS intends to keep offering the free plan but that could change.
    3) I believe that OS has $65 million in VC funding.  I don't follow the smartphone app market, but would be surprised if many authors there had that level of  resources backing them up.  
    4) Fusion 360 is free - unless they change the license conditions.  That does look like the best solution for your budget, though.  I haven't tried it yet, but the videos I've seen make it look like a clunky UI and OS seems much cleaner to me but everyone has a different preference.

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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    michael3424 said:
    1) Geomagic Design is $2k plus $400/year maintenance - look at Cubify instead, which runs $200 or so.
    2) There are no guarantees in life, OS intends to keep offering the free plan but that could change.
    3) I believe that OS has $65 million in VC funding.  I don't follow the smartphone app market, but would be surprised if many authors there had that level of  resources backing them up.  
    4) Fusion 360 is free - unless they change the license conditions.  That does look like the best solution for your budget, though.  I haven't tried it yet, but the videos I've seen make it look like a clunky UI and OS seems much cleaner to me but everyone has a different preference.

    I am a startup on a v tight budget - so sadly Geomagic is out.

    > the videos I've seen make it look like a clunky UI and OS seems much cleaner
    Now we're talking.  :)   Yes, I have been working through some of Fusion 360 videos today and it's pretty darned painful with seemingly endless special menu options you have to click on to get things done. 
    e.g. in their "Get Started with Fusion 360 - Part 3" video
    At about 4mins in, getting to build a wavy power lead seems painful...



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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    UPDATE
    I have now spent a few hours with OnShape experimenting and following videos.  So far so good....  :)  
    However IMHO there are a number of  things about the interface that definitely aren't as easy and obvious as they should be to the new user. Would it be helpful for me to record a list of suggestions anywhere? 

    [Once you know the correct way to do things these issues become invisible to the expert user, but nonetheless they do still impact the learning curve...]
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    LumenLumen Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Answer ✓
    :-)
    Yay
    You are correct, and the user manual is not really up to date.
    Yes it would be helpful. 
    Check through the forum ..  Onshape has requested many times user opinions on various features and methods.
    Start a new thread if you must.
    Or send feedback straight to support .. top right question mark ... drop down ...  feedback.

    Thank you for jumping in and splashing about.





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    john_smith077john_smith077 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    OK thank you - but I don't want to annoy everybody! Is there not a special place... or is this it? 

    If you don't stop me maybe I'll start a special thread and start venting there... :)
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