Well i think i'm about to give up :(

elhanan_maayan

hi...

i'm java software developer with no background on 3d modelling, i asked around for any simple software that would allow me to model simple parts like an freewheel adapter for my machinist to create. 
i was recommended onshape or sketchup 
after  trying out few of the tutorials i realized they all start from the "middle" there's no basic buttom to top , on how to begin drawing, to create a simple part from scratch, even the sketch tutorial starts from an existing sketch. 

what i need is something that starts from the ground up, and walks you the steps of creating a part from NOTHING, creating a cylinder, then how you modify it, what are the basic parts of the sceen etc. .etc.. 

edited: THIS is what i'm talking about : http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58 a video like this should pop-up as soon as you finish signup to onshape

andrew_troup

Try this video, starting at about 0m35s

https://www.onshape.com/learn/on-demand-training#!essential-training

3dcad

Post a picture of some simple thing you wan't to create, we (other users) will help you get started.

ps. recommending onshape or sketchup for cad is like recommending a jet or hang-glider for flying

elhanan_maayan

this from sketchup, by comparison, i didn't know anything about it today, and after i downloaded and watched the first video , this is the result
the video here, is really really fat. 

this is a freewheel adapter i had in mind for the gng 2015 mid drive kit . it's currently accepting only 12 freewheels which fall apart really fast 
so i wanted to freedom in determining my own freewheel, however most standard freewheels come in a larger bore diameter.
so i figured i could create an adapter and feed the standard freewheel

i took it to a machinist, but since the measrument went' exactly i could't measure it cause the original freewheel was hard to remove. but below picture is the result. (we had to put in some spacers) .

3dcad

@elhanan_maayan
Here is something for you to get started (it is my public support document, use RMB on tab an copy to clipboard -> paste into your own document):
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d29ff8e74a0f49809e533f48/w/48fedb2064cc4f30a27ee6e8/e/820d8a0ff2db491aa18f529a

This took like 2 minutes (dimensions are probably very wrong):

elhanan_maayan

thanks i'll try it..

Skippy

I just watched all the videos in the video library when I started, I thought they covered most things. https://www.onshape.com/videos

nick_kania

You can also check out this beginner tutorial here https://cad.onshape.com/help/#tutorial.htm?TocPath=Tutorial|_____0
and check out this set of videos https://www.onshape.com/learn/essential-training-series#!lesson-number=1&title=documents-ui
and visit https://www.onshape.com/learn for even more help

noa

Hi @elhanan_maayan ,

I recommend looking at this: https://www.onshape.com/edu/instructor-kit

It's something we put together for instructors to use in a classroom setting but people are finding it very useful for teaching themselves CAD from the ground up.  We will soon have all of this content embedded on our website but for now you can download the files and do everything in order. The file contains videos, exercises, and quizzes with the target audience being people that have never used CAD.

Let me know what you think if you decide to try it. If you find that it is too high level still, that would be very useful feedback for us!

Best,
Noa

Darren_A_Henry

Hi @elhanan_maayan

Please give me feedback on our essential training.   Especially this video on part creation.  https://www.onshape.com/learn/essential-training-series#!lesson-number=2&title=part-studios

I was hoping it was geared toward new users.

Also if you need more information on 3d design theory and approaches, I recommend the same videos that Noa did above.  https://www.onshape.com/edu/instructor-kit

Darren

Narayan_K

Hi,

Please find  the below link for adapter.you also find the video in below document.

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/e5926c835688411dabf7adf1/w/3e78ed611e484a4fbae1d42c/e/dff33da9432e44f39a11fb5b

elhanan_maayan

well @noa i'm trying the instructor kit, so i'll give out  my feedback as i go.

first of all about basic sketching, while it's nice to see, introducing an already existing model, creates "noise" and distraction, cause i keep wondering why do i need the first part. basic should start from nothing. the exercise actually it better at this. 

but the exercise and btw this is relevant to all other guides i've seen so far is using abstract parts, while these parts maybe real or serve a real point, i'm unfamiliar with any of them, so i cannot relate to their function or how they are being made. when you teach basic stuff, you also need basic parts, like a nail, or a hammer's head. those are things that everyone knows about and used before, so they can relate to them, once you start dissabmle them feature wise , it would be easier for people to deconstruct stuff they see into parts. 

elhanan_maayan

i just finished the basic sketching and leaves to be desired.
there were a lot of things i had to guess on how to do , especially the sketch fillet which i'm still not sure what it does exactly. also i see no icon for voluem which it speaks of 

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/8b638788097642b983575942/w/dd9d531384684c0c89f6276d/e/ffee7db5b66f4fed8f9663ae

noa

Thanks for the feedback @elhanan_maayan. We wanted to try making exercises that don't provide every single step but rather have you learn by problem solving. Knowing that more steps would be helpful is useful feedback.

As for volume, you can select a part from the parts list then click the small measurement tool in the bottom right corner of the screen. This button was released after the lessons were made. Again, useful feedback.

-Noa

Darren_A_Henry

@elhanan_maayan

Hi.  We have so many videos on the learning section of our website.  Please take a look.  We cover sketch tips including sketch fillets.  In numerous videos we cover mass properties and measure.  Also we have weekly webinars you can attend to learn and even ask questions.  The videos are also available on our youtube channel and in our blog. 

I appreciate the feedback that you would like more in-app help and tutorials.  We are working on this.  

Thanks
Darren

Narayan_K

elhanan_maayan,Please find the below video contains your example.

peter_hall

@Narayan_K  Did you make this video? If so which software did you use? Really well explained with the yellow pop up post it messages.

elhanan_maayan

wow that was really really fast i'll try to follow, is there anyway to specify threadings? (like left hand and right hand ones, including threading itself like 26) 

3dcad

@Narayan_K Why not use just 1 sketch? Should be easier to create and maintain..
Like: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/d29ff8e74a0f49809e533f48/w/48fedb2064cc4f30a27ee6e8/e/820d8a0ff2db491aa18f529a

elhanan_maayan

actually @3dcad  that's what i was thinking, also the flat rims seemed to be easier to create in sketchup all i did was draw 2 lines across the edges of the cylynder and once the face was created excruded it into nothingness, can't it be done here the same way? 

andrew_troup

@elhanan_maayan
It's not that it can't be done that way, it's just that a rectangle is quicker to draw than two separate lines, plus it takes care of constraining those lines to penetrate equally into the circle.
There's no need in Onshape to trim away the extra lines: in effect, they're automatic construction lines  

brucebartlett

elhanan_maayan said:

wow that was really really fast i'll try to follow, is there anyway to specify threadings? (like left hand and right hand ones, including threading itself like 26) 

Even quicker if you learn the keyboard short cuts, https://cad.onshape.com/help/Content/keyboardshortcuts.htm

I'd give revolve a go for this part, less features and more control from the sketch.

andrew_troup

There are a couple of Onshape videos on threading, the one on the nut is probably the most applicable. Left and right hand is just a matter of picking the direction when you create the helix.

https://www.onshape.com/cad-blog/tech-tip-how-to-build-a-nut

Narayan_K

peter_hall, to created that pop-up video i used camtasia.then again i recorded that video with LICEcap to make it in .gif format.
@3dcadelhanan_maayan,Yes,if i use revolve it may easy .Actually i thought of cover most of basic features like extrude(add and remove),sketch features like "Use" etc.

peter_hall

I like to build parts with sketches on existing extruded faces etc I find it an easier way to alter heights of extrudes, depths of holes etc moving forward in a design with multiple parts. So whilst there may be quicker ways I think this was a good demo @Narayan_K

_Ðave_

@Narayan_K

 I commend you and others for the effort you but into helping out the Onshape community.
Nicely done keep up the gr8 work.

Narayan_K

Thank you.

3dcad

Narayan_K said:

..
@3dcadelhanan_maayan,Yes,if i use revolve it may easy .Actually i thought of cover most of basic features like extrude(add and remove),sketch features like "Use" etc.

I though so, your posts rarely leave anything to add  I just had to ask since most of cads don't have this possibility to reuse sketches.

Revolve + Extrude cut would need 2 sketch + 2 extrude. For me 1 sketch + 3 extrude seems better option for this particular case since I find it easier to understand for beginner (you don't need to think about profile or radius, just create circles from top view and extrude 3 areas).

elhanan_maayan

thanks ya'll , i did not anticipate such a huge response, the adapter was already built manually with my machinist, but i'm still gonna use this as an exercise,and by no means the only part, i may have to create a sprocket, which i'm not sure i can here (as i don't know to specify teeth pattern here) and maybe various plates

this is a hobby of mine using mid-drives, in case some of you don't know a mid-drive is a electric bicycle conversion kit that attaches under bike's frame onto the bottom bracket, although not as popular as hub motors kit (where you just replace the rear or front wheels of the bike with one that has a motor) they are getting more and more traction, example of such are

http://www.ecospeed.com/electrify-your-ride/off-road/ 
http://www.aft-ebike.com/kits--pricing.html, 
http://davincidrives.com/drives/
http://global.ego-kits.com/ego-kit-3400-20ah.html, 
http://www.lightningrodev.com/,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V500W-GNG-CHAIN-REDUCTION-MID-DRIVE-ELECTRIC-MOTORIZED-E-BIKE-KIT-BRUSHLESS-/261321516531
http://cyclone-tw.com/

you'll notice that there can be a huge price range between each one, but basically the principal  the same, you take a motor that has around 4000 rpm, you apply a reduction scheme, using either a planetary gear assembly which is what most kits do, or use a spindle as in the case of my gng, so the rpm would roughly around bikes pedaling speed or faster (usually around 150 rpm) you then design metal brackets with cnc that would attach the motor to the bottom bracket and a place to attach hose clamps to downtube. 
usually there shouldn't be any problem, unless you overclock them, (which is what some people do, you'll find them on http://www.endless-sphere.com/ )  my gng kit was originally rated to have around 700watts, however the motor itself was known to handle much higher powers, so i'm running it at around 1500-2000 watts, so it would make sense, SOME things would break , the first thing that went was a 12T freewheel used by the motor to drive the crank, it always had a bad rep, and this one broke after 2 days, (i had another which lasted 2 weeks) , there are many versions of this thing around ebay, and the one i got as a spare didn't match , so plan b came into effect which is to use a better freewheel from ACS. but the original freehwheel was  M18x26, and ACS is M30x1 ,so thus came in the adapter we talk about. 

while trying to assemble to adapter we "squashed" the original spindle's other side which held another sprocket  (yea Chinese quality) and it longer held the sprocket correctly,  so we went ahead to create another spindle this time from full steel, again i didn't have any sketches or measurement (the spindle need to have cone shape on left side, a place for 2 bearings i the middle and grove for lock rings,  you can see it here, the new spindle is being made while i'm holding the old one, while it wasn't an exact duplicate , we still managed ,but knowing onshape would probably have helped too




i've had other in another mid drive where the plates themselves which held the motor got bent a little but enough to make unusable. and supplier didn't want send me better ones, you can see it here
so for me making new ones would be next to impossible some folks actually wanted 500$ just for the reverse engineering itself. (the hard part is designing the round portions which should get attached to the motor.



so you can see why knowing how to sketch parts may come in handy.
that downside being that i don't know anything about sketching, or even most of the terminology used (which also makes it hard from to understand some of the tutorials in onshape, there might be a language barrier as english is my second language) 


and i'm just dabbling some people actually build there own from scratch like here
https://www.electricbike.com/diy-mid-drive/
or here 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9brryyFeBQ

juan_aviles

elhanan_maayan I'm very interested in your project.  I started a similar electric drive bicycle a few years ago...I may have to revive that project in Onshape.

elhanan_maayan

@juan_aviles good luck 

so far the remaining concern for me, is how will the acs crossfire freewheel holdp, the other concern is how long will a motor's driver sprocket hold, as this one can only be obtained from the manufacturer