CAM coming to Onshape.

edward_petrillo

We are a FIRST Robotics Team with a well-equipped machine shop in our parent high school.  Since 2016, we have been graduating students with substantial Onshape proficiency who go on to top-rated engineering schools (WPI, Renssalaer, Princeton, etc).  Access to an integrated CAM solution within Onshape would supercharge our ability to prepare these students more fully for 21st century engineering careers.

What types of CNC machines do you use?
Tormach PCNC 1100 with ATC; StepCraft Q408 with ATC; home-brew CNC router running Mach 4; Boss Laser; multiple 3D printers

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
80-90%  2.5 axis machining of flat stock;  limited multiple face machining, occasional full 3 -axis

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
We design and build a competition robot from scratch starting in January of each year against a demanding timeline.  60-100 parts machined for the final assembly, mostly CNC.  A better CAM soltion would enable us to migrate more of our prototyping work from manual milling to CNC. Our StepCraft and Tormach are used throughout the school year in our woodworking and engineering curriculum.

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
2-4 teachers and adult mentors instruct 20-30 students annually in CNC-based design and fabrication

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
Vcarve Pro for importing 2D vector files and generating 2.5D toolpaths.  HSM within Fusion 360 for some of this work and more complex machining as well.
The lack of an ideal CAM solution is the major limiting factor in utilizing the CNC technology that has been provided to us.   The learning curves for industrial CAM solutions are inapproriately steep for our environment.  The Fusion interface is a major obstacle that very few of our students have been able to master; VCarve provides a better interface, but its feature set is a poor match for mechanical design.  Our students have taught themselves to utilize a wide range of Onshape capabilities; we anticipate that they would quickly master an integrated CAM solution.

Please enable CAM within Onshape for educational users- you will be repaid many times over as our students carry their skills forward. Thank you for the invitation to describe our needs.

joep

@joe_dunne , I am interested in (beta) testing.

• What types of CNC machines do you use?
  Shoda, ShopSabre - 3 & 4 Axis - Fanuc & Mitsubishi controller.
• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
  2.5 & 3 Axis - Materials vary from Aluminum, Aluminum honeycomb, plastics, solid surface, wood, wooden sheet goods, MDF. 
• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
  Prototyping and production 8 to 12 hours daily (work week).
• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
  I do.
• Do you use an existing CAM solution?
  SW/Camworks.
  
  Thanks.

Sten_Velschow

joe_dunne said:

While we are on this subject. I have a question for all. 

What are the specific needs you and or your company has for CAM with Onshape?  Specifically

• What types of CNC machines do you use?
• - FANUC, Shapeoko
  
• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
  - 3 axis
• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
  -prototyping runs. small scale production runs. Our parts are very small. Daily runs.

• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

The mechanical design engineers

• Do you use an existing CAM solution?

Meshcam

Any other details would likely be useful to us.

Thanks

Joe

We use 3 axis for most things. Have a 4th axis but havent used it yet (I don't have software that is capable).

fst

Fingers crossed that CAM will also be available in the hobby version! (Wouldn't mind paying something, 1500€ per year isn't justifyable for hobby use though)

What types of CNC machines do you use?

We have a Hammer HNC 87.42 in the MakerSpace

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
3 axis for musical instrument making (5 axis would be great for my usecase, but I don't have access to such a machine atm.)

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
Just prototyping atm.

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
One hobbyist (me) and the MakerSpace team is reachable in case of machine related questions.

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
Fusion 360, VCarve, Deskproto, NC Shop Floor Programmer (Maker version)

heiko_gosewisch

Hello, everyone,

I recently switched from Fusion360 to OnShape. In Fusion I had everything from a single source CAD/CAM/Slicer. Why did I switch? Fusion is extremely slow and crashes from time to time without warning. I live with my family in a multi-generational house. My son is a programmer and also a model builder. I construct RC flight models and later manufacture them using the composite method, www.stealth.berlin. OnShape works great thanks to my son, the switch wasn't that difficult. Only the Kiri Moto CAM addon gives us problems. Hence my request to make it accessible for hobby users as well. here is my certificated hobby milling machine.

What types of CNC machines do you use?

I have a Raschke Wood CNC 1000X500X110

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
3 axis for 2D Contur and 3D roughing/finishing

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
Only used when there is something to mill

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
One hobbyist, me and my son
 
Do you use an existing CAM solution?
before switching to OnShape I used Fusion's CAM module now Kiri Moto

By Heiko from Germany

dirk_van_der_vaart

@heiko_gosewisch
For the time being you could take a look at Carbide create, it's free and simple
https://carbide3d.com/carbidecreate/download/

heiko_gosewisch

@dirk_van_der_vaart
anyway thanks for the link. I would like it to be a one-stop shop like Fusion. Currently I use the KiriMoto plugin. I have created over 300 drawings that are struggling to export as dxf in OnShape. As a step import it works great. So I stay with OnShape and KiriMoto for now. KiriMoto has a few minor problems that I have already posted. Basically I would be very happy that if there will be a CAM module in OnShape, that it is also available for the hobby users. 

mrshaman

I am interested in Beta testing. 

• What types of CNC machines do you use?

Tormach 770M Mill, Tormach 15L Lathe, AVID CNC 4848 Pro router, Glowforge Laser Cutter, various 3D printers

• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc.....

Mostly 2.5 Axis on the mill, some 2 axis turning, some 3 Axis milling

• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?

Occasional. Depending on the time of year, some classes may have them running mroe.

• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

Me and high school students.

• Do you use an existing CAM solution?

Currently Fusion.

Any other details would likely be useful to us.

I run a First Robotics Team 8051, as well as teach manufacturing classes. If we are to use this, it needs to be easy enough to learn that I can teach a brand new high school student, ideally to make something simple quickly. For the beta, I'm happy to try it myself and give feedback from this lens.

Thanks,

Matiah Shaman
Foster High School
Tukwila School District
Tukwila, WA

david_7

What are the specific needs you and or your company has for CAM with Onshape?  Specifically

• What types of CNC machines do you use? Tormach, Roland
• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 2.5 Axis
• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7? Prototyping and short run production
• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...Just me
• Do you use an existing CAM solution? Fusion 360, Tormach conversational

Any other details would likely be useful to us. 

Important that tool paths can be added to linked parts so that fixtures can be designed separately.

gareth_farrington

joe_dunne said:

For the woodworkers, laser cut, waterjet out there.  Just to set proper expectations.  The initial product is 3D milling oriented.  2 axis - 5 axis. This is where the product is already is at.  The immediate goal is to shore up the existing app and get it in your hands. It serves as a starting point

I wrote the Post for the Glowforge laser that turns the Fusion 360 laser CAM output into a well ordered SVG (https://github.com/garethky/glowforge-colorific-fusion360-post). But I much prefer to work in OnShape. This is something I would like to bring to OnShape as well, once we can do custom post processors.

What types of CNC machines do you use?
Glowforge Laser, AVID CNC Pro 48x48

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
2D (laser cut & score), 2.5D (sheet goods), 3D (surfacing things like molds)

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
hobby projects / prototypes

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
n/a, I do the CAM

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
Fusion360

And if this helps: I pay money for Fusion360 just so I could use their import/export features so I can do all of my modeling in OnShape and use their CAM tool. But you can gladly have the $545 I pay them if I can get a good CAM tool in OnShape.

michael_zeagler

Now that we're getting CAM, what's the likelihood of model-based definition and tolerance analysis? Those would be pretty helpful in-between going from "shapes" to machines without having to use any other tools between.

jeff_brown304

While we await OnShape's new CAM features, here's a little CAM package that I wrote in FeatureScript that some of you may find useful for hobby projects.

Introducing Camel: CAM for OnShape, implemented in FeatureScript

Have fun!

james_procter931

I'm a hobbyist who would like to one day become a professional...

What types of CNC machines do you use?
3-axis Workbee hobbyist Machine

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 
2.5 Axis machining

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
Mostly prototyping several once a week, just getting started and plan to ramp up frequency.

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
I do as a hobbyist
 
Do you use an existing CAM solution?
After Graduating college Where I learned Fusion 360. I used Onshape as my personal computer wasn't strong enough for non cloud CAD. I just recently got Fusion360 again to start using its CAM feature for my new desktop CNC. I would love to just use OS as I've become so comfortable to modeling in OS. 

alan_glaser

@joe_dunne we would be very interested in evaluating this capability. We are a competition robotics team for high-school-aged students; we have a mix of students and adult mentors using Onshape for CAD and (for the moment) another CAM solution. We would love to do our CAM in the Onshape environment. However, we're a small community-based team not affiliated with a school, so Education Enterprise is out of reach for us.

Here's some answers to your questions:

• What types of CNC machines do you use?

We use a desktop CNC router, specifically the OmioCNC X8 USB.

• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 

We do 2.5 axis machining. We have a 4th axis for the router but it is rarely used and is not critical functionality.

• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?

We cut custom aluminum and plastic parts for our competition robots. Our volume is quite low; probably more like "occasional prototyping". 

• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

CAM is done by our students and mentors; we would like it to be done exclusively by our students, so an accessible, understandable tool is essential.

• Do you use an existing CAM solution?
  

We do.  We export designs from Onshape and import into Fusion 360 for CAM.

wout_theelen541

Kind of a tangent but I was watching the CAM workshop today pretty cool stuff and I was wondering if additive manufacturing would be something that would eventually be developed? Jon Hirschtick mentioned how important additive manufacturing is to companies now.

The reason I ask this is that I the collision avoidance tools in CAM studio of a 3D printing project I had once thought of which was to adapt a regular 3D printer into a printer farm. The way I imagined this to work is that each part is print individually instead of the traditional layer by layer approach. In that way if something goes wrong and you have to stop the print you don't have all of your parts incomplete and have to start over. The reason that I was remind was that the collision avoidance tools could be quite helpful in this. Once you print a part it becomes a new object to avoid. With that done you could maximize the number of objects on the build plate.

MichaelPascoe

What if our machines could directly get the code from Onshape to run using API. Same for 3D printing. This could be powerful.

jeff_brown304

wout_theelen541 said:

The way I imagined this to work is that each part is print individually instead of the traditional layer by layer approach. In that way if something goes wrong and you have to stop the print you don't have all of your parts incomplete and have to start over. The reason that I was remind was that the collision avoidance tools could be quite helpful in this. Once you print a part it becomes a new object to avoid. With that done you could maximize the number of objects on the build plate.

This is already something you can play with today.  For example, PrusaSlicer has an option to print individual objects sequentially: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/sequential-printing_124589

I’ve used this option before to improve print quality and avoid stringing between objects.  It works pretty well as long as you’re mindful of your machine clearances.

joe_dunne

MichaelPascoe said:

What if our machines could directly get the code from Onshape to run using API. Same for 3D printing. This could be powerful.

Certainly an interesting idea.   However I suspect it requires a lot of cooperation from each individual hardware manufacturer.  I use one product today that has done this.   Easel is a dedicated Web based CAM that works with the Inventables line of desktop CNCs.  It sends gcode directly to the cnc machine without having to use some kind of gcode sender.... They are able to do this because they control both the hardware and software. and still it requires specific drivers for each OS.... and it can be finicky getting communication ports to talk properly to CNC machine....

joe_dunne

wout_theelen541 said:

Kind of a tangent but I was watching the CAM workshop today pretty cool stuff and I was wondering if additive manufacturing would be something that would eventually be developed? Jon Hirschtick mentioned how important additive manufacturing is to companies now.

The reason I ask this is that I the collision avoidance tools in CAM studio of a 3D printing project I had once thought of which was to adapt a regular 3D printer into a printer farm. The way I imagined this to work is that each part is print individually instead of the traditional layer by layer approach. In that way if something goes wrong and you have to stop the print you don't have all of your parts incomplete and have to start over. The reason that I was remind was that the collision avoidance tools could be quite helpful in this. Once you print a part it becomes a new object to avoid. With that done you could maximize the number of objects on the build plate.

I can share a little experience here. When we started Onshape in 2013.  We too expected to have additive, 3D printing capabilities built into Onshape.  As time went on we found market demand low.  Regardless of which 3D printing company you think of (I talked to most of them).  Each viewed file based STL was good enough..  I think the raw capitalistic view is they did not think they would get an ROI on more direct CAD integration.  They would rather focus on STL. Today each hardware vendor is invested in their own software solution, slicer etc...  of course there are few generic solutions like Cura or simply3D. 

Onshape is going to have some really cool capabilities coming that are tangential to this. Like generative design.  I am sure you will see more additive capabilities, built into Onshape over time.  Its going to follow the market demand.

Of course these are my personal observations and opinions. 

Joe

nick_papageorge073

I saw during the presentation that CAM would be for Professional, Enterprise, and EDU (Enterprise EDU version only). I don't know if that is final or not. I hope there is some consideration for hobbyists. I do think F360 converted a lot of hobby and side job cnc users into paid users by offering CAM in limited form for free. I think OS could have the same benefit. If you limited jobs to 50IPM or 3 tools max, etc., (plus the public access of any files), it would keep professional cnc shops from avoiding paying. IMO as a hobbyist cnc user with a small desktop cnc in my living room who is begging to throw F360 in the trash.

fst

Sorry, double posting. (Is the per-post approval released after a certain number of "ok" posts? This makes participation quite tedious and error prone, imho...)

robert_johnston

I'm another one that is mostly sheet metal so plasma/laser with sheet nesting would be a great addition

What types of CNC machines do you use?
Retrofitted Vulcan plasma with hypertherm torch

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn?
2D flat sheet metal cutting

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping?
Machine runs every day for production and prototyping

Who typically uses CAM in your company?
 Drafts person or senior sheet metal fabricator will program/nest with an operator/junior running the plasma

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
Old shop data systems duct cam package

fst

Seconded, having CAM in the Hobby version would be THE essential cornerstone to converting people over to Onshape!
Imho PTC should think about a fully featured hobby license between Free and Professional that is restricted in the amount of money you can make with it (e.g. < 10000€/year) - costing something in the realms of 10€ per month. Think that would be a big success!

trebor_smith

I used Fusion 360 Cam to make some electric guitars on a 6040 router. While I like Fusion 360 just fine, the CAM had tons of weird settings that were poorly documented, would take up to hours to make a path, and would often give errors. I am interested in testing so that I can move more to OnShape.

wout_theelen541

trebor_smith said:

I used Fusion 360 Cam to make some electric guitars on a 6040 router. While I like Fusion 360 just fine, the CAM had tons of weird settings that were poorly documented, would take up to hours to make a path, and would often give errors. I am interested in testing so that I can move more to OnShape.

Completely agree. I need to run some milling soon and I am getting started with F360 reluctantly knowing that CAM studio is coming soon. I wish F360 had spent sometime just making an official video tutorial themselves. Instead I have to either follow their written guide or watch a tutorial from a third party...

wout_theelen541

What types of CNC machines do you use?
I am using a CNC machine in a maker space from 2010 the original manufacturer has gone out of business and a planet machine CNC controller was put in. I also use a Prusa Mini for prototyping and will be using a laser cutter at some point but that might not be for a while

What kinds of machining do you do?
3 axis wood milling, I am mainly using MDF but I might use other types of wood in the future.

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?
I am developing a prototype for our product. The CNC is running continuously throughout the day from different users and I would only be using it in total 8 hours within the next month. I am continually tweaking my designs though and migrating between OnShape and F360 for every change is a lot of work and I can see a lot of room for error.

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...
Their is one main expert for the CNC but other people also know how to use it. 

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
I am learning F360 for this project

james_harton433

What types of CNC machines do you use?

MPCNC Primo running uCNC and a 10 watt generic GRBL-based laser engraver.

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc.....

2d laser cutting/engraving and 2d, 2.5d and 3d milling.  Usually small parts.

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?

Hobby projects

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

Just me

Do you use an existing CAM solution?

Primarily Fusion 360, but I have a paid license for MeshCAM for 3d milling wings.

samuele_piccolo

@joe_dunne Hi, I would like to have the chance to test the Onshape CAM. I currently use Fusion 360, Powermill and Mastercam.

Cary_Bettenhausen

joe_dunne said:

While we are on this subject. I have a question for all. 

What are the specific needs you and or your company has for CAM with Onshape?  Specifically

• What types of CNC machines do you use?

Haas and Hurco 3 and 4-axis machining centers (7), Amada turrets (4), IPG Photonics laser (1), Maxiem water jet (1), CNC lathe (1, unknown make/model)

• What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 

3 and 4-axis machining, 2D punching, laser and waterjet, CNC turning

• Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?

All machines run short-run production on 2 shifts and occasional prototype parts

• Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

Dedicated programmers and machinists for all processes

• Do you use an existing CAM solution?

MasterCam for machining and StrikerCAM for 2D punching and laser

Any other details would likely be useful to us.

We are in the process of making the transition from SolidWorks to Onshape so any integrations will be helpful. We are using the MasterCam plugin for SolidWorks and plan on using their plugin for Onshape.

Thanks

Joe

James_Peverill

We would like to try out the CAM beta. Lack of decent CAM integration is a major problem that is driving us away from OnShape. 

What types of CNC machines do you use?

Have a Bridgeport Series II CNC Knee Mill (LinuxCNC converted), a Bridgeport TorqueCut22, and are setting up a late 90's Fadal4020.

What kinds of machining do you do? 2.5 axis? Mill Turn? etc..... 

Majority 2.5 axis but some 3d surfacing. One mill has a 4th axis and incoming mill has 5th axis.

Volume of work, is this for occasional prototyping? Or do you have machines running 24/7?

Rapid prototyping and small manufacturing runs.

Who typically uses CAM in your company? Do you have a dedicated machinist? etc...

Primarily a handful of engineers. Limited by the number of CAM seats.

Do you use an existing CAM solution?
We use Fusion360 as well as HSMworks (with Solidworks).