Share model outside Onshape Public Link (View Only)

nav

Like other Cloud based CAD`s it would be nice to be able to share via URL, a part or assembly to anyone outside Onshape in a web viewer (View only) with basic zoom/drag/rotate features.

lougallo

@nicolas_ariza We do have some ideas about being able to embed and share without a login.  One would have an iFrame and one would not.  I can add you to that request.

3dexter

+1

@nicolas_arizathis is possible with the GrabCAD Workbench.

You can also comment and sketch the model by only the URL!

nav

Thanks a lot @3dexter interesting alternative, I signed up and shared, a model it works well.

michael3424

Would others find 3D PDFs useful for sharing designs with co-workers?  That would handle 90+% of my design sharing needs.

john_rousseau

Hi @Michael3424. Why wouldn't you just share the Onshape document with a co-worker? Isn't the 3D PDF going to be out-of-date very quickly? This is one of the core problems we are trying to solve with Onshape.

3dcad

I don't like 3D pdfs, for some reason it's clumsy to handle and doesn't look good with default view mode. But if these things could be solved, I would like to see 3dpdf as an optional static output for assembly animations (to be used offline).

michael3424

@john_rousseau - in many past cases I was sharing an assembly view that was going to be used in a presentation or that would go to someone that should be restricted from access to design dimensions and other details.  3D PDFs aren't really a deal breaker for me, but I've found them to be very useful in the past and I would really like to have them at some point in Onshape.  That said, I was curious to see others feelings on 3D PDFs.

michael3424

@3dcad - I agree that GeoMagic's 3D PDFs don't look anywhere near as nice as Onshape's assembly tabs and would hope that a 3D PDF from Onshape would look a lot better.  I wonder if the image quality is limited by the Acrobat 3D PDF system or by the licensee's implementation.

burhop

@lougallo  I'd like to share public links too.  Even better, how about I can share them to Facebook and Google+     
 

3dcad

I begin to have feelings that at some point Onshape needs to divide users (and some features) to hobbyists and professionals.
If there is going to be any social media connections, please create disable/hide option before adding them.

andrew_troup

I absolutely agree with @3dcad and personally I would go a bit further: please make such connections (if any) an opt-in option.

walter

i'm with andrew_troup and 3dcad

burhop

3dcad said:

I begin to have feelings that at some point Onshape needs to divide users (and some features) to hobbyists and professionals.
If there is going to be any social media connections, please create disable/hide option before adding them.

I get it that if you are working on some confidential project you would not want to accidentally get your design shared on Facebook.   However, I'm curious about dividing users (and some features) between hobbyists and professionals. Could you expand more on that?

pete_yodis

John Rousseau said:

Hi @Michael3424. Why wouldn't you just share the Onshape document with a co-worker? Isn't the 3D PDF going to be out-of-date very quickly? This is one of the core problems we are trying to solve with Onshape.

@John Rousseau  You are spot on.  The reason 3D PDFs exist is because 3D Desktop CAD packages had no bulletproof viewing method to share data with users (eDrawings was only OK).  3D PDF's in my experience seemed heavy and slow.  Not so with Onshape.  I really do not want to create another document that gets out in the wild and that's severed from the design.  As my friend @billy says... "NO COPIES".  The current effort of CAD packages to use 3DPDF to do MBD (Model Based Definition), also seems to be counterproductive.  They are making another document to capture the model that already exists.... ughhhhh.  I would love Onshape to push things along and do it right.  All we need is the browser and access to the live Onshape model.  Nothing more.  Do all the documenting, viewing, sharing, commenting, and meeting right there.  So efficient.

_Ðave_

Let's not forget about the manufacturing process and the need for drawings which will require some from of printable format. likely the need for pdf will not expire until every machinist and factory worker has a smartphone and Onshape account. 

3dcad

@dave_petit  I suppose all the companies with such machinery can afford a tablet beside machine and use shared free account of Onshape?

I'm 100% in for doing it all in Onshape! But I think it also important to have wide level of export tools for those who need static copies (for a reason or another).

3dcad

@burhop  There was a thread with some ideas of dividing document screen for pros & hobbies (see the end of thread page 1):
https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/339/feed-back-on-who-is-using-your-public-and-shared-parts

kevin_quigley

First. 3D PDF can be used off line, and pretty much every Mac or PC on the planet has a PDF viewer. Don't underestimate the value in having offline access to data, even if it is "out of date". Out of date is better than not seeing anything and many/most users of this are not CAD people, they are marketing or finance people.

Second. No log in access to viewing and mark up is something that has been asked for for a while. I sincerely hope that by the time Onshape gets out of beta we will have this (along with drawing of course). Prior to Workbench going free I (and others) suggested an equivalent Onshape package for viewing and markup. But now they are free, whatever Onshape does in that sector must also be free.

Third. The market dynamic in the cloud cad sector is one package, including everything a designer could need. Like it or not, the comparison to Onshape is Fusion. Once they add FEA tools and others all in the same subscription it will be a very hard sell to persuade buyers to switch from an established desktop solution then start adding on multiple modules at extra cost. I am clear here. One package, one price, including everything. If not, then we might as well stick to SolidWorks.

3dcad

And other point for 3d pdf is that pdf files are probably allowed in every company.
Recently, I bumped into a situation where I needed to share 350mb video to machine manufacturer. First I tried to share dropbox link - not allowed at their end, then youtube link - not allowed.
I'm afraid we are going to see similar restriction with Onshape links..

Kevin Quigley said:

.. I am clear here. One package, one price, including everything. ..

I agree. And hopefully the same price we have now.
 

andrew_troup

I am personally twitchy about demands that anything be free.

Not just because it's a race to the bottom
 (in the sense that once anything of a certain classification is free, everything else must follow)

"Free" just means that the people who use that thing are not the people who pay for it.

And my main objection to that has nothing to do with morals or ethics or politics, but a simple pragmatic point:
Leverage. Whoever pays the piper ends up calling the tune. 

Free newspapers and online media only meet the needs of the reader incidentally, or accidentally: they are designed to meet the needs of the advertiser.

Things which are free (or unrealistically inexpensive) must eventually evolve to meet the needs of whoever is actually paying for them. Or else die.

I need my CAD tools to meet MY needs, and there seems no reason for that state of affairs to persist, if someone else is paying for them.

kevin_quigley

I agree. Totally. If you look back to early forum posts you will see that. However we are talking specifically about file sharing. Most CAD vendors offer free at the point of use CAD viewing tools...think E Drawings etc. these serve a purpose to allow the CAD user (the paying user) to communicate the design to anyone who installs the free software. 

Like others I have customers who do not use CAD...they are high level managers, marketing, finance, science experts etc. 

We dabbled in web based file viewing back in 2000s. It was very unsatisfactory from my point of view because it demanded we buy costly subscriptions for both ends. So we stuck to EDrawings and were early adoptors of Acrobat3D (in fact on the alpha/beta team for that).

When GrabCAD came along I could see the potential immediately. I paid for a subscription and did influence their development, specifically to offer the no log in url. Then they were bought out by Stratasys and switched to the free system. I have to say as a company they remain responsive to requests for enhancement, but it is also fair to say those enhancement don't come along that regularly now...because the platform is more mature. The same slowing of released enhancements will happen with Onshape.

so getting back to Onshape, if you are a paying subcriber you will influence. But you also need to watch the market dynamics and tailor the offer. To be frank Onshape is not cutting it on the modelling side for us to even consider using it yet. But had they offered a reduced cost subscription with extensive (and I mean better) file viewing, annotation, measuring, conversion toolset along with say a cloud based project management solution we would be using that right now.

Modelling is tough. Doing all this other stuff should be simpler given the infrastructure that is in place. On the modelling side it is a law of diminishing returns. We use 3D to a high level. We operate in a world of G2 and G3 continuity and have to knock up complex surface daily. Do I see Onshape ever getting to that level? Maybe. But until they do we are sticking to other systems that do deliver that today.

it is up to Onshape to build the bridges to those systems so they can start to persuade us to use the Onshape platform for collaboration. The issue is, GrabCAD do exactly that right now. For free. 

3dcad

In my opinion some other features could be made only to Pro users but everything concerning collaboration, viewing, commenting etc. should always be free. For the reasons mentioned in above comments.

andrew_troup

Now that @Kevin Quigley explains his underlying reasoning in different terms, I find myself agreeing with him and "@3dcad" that bridges into and out of Onshape should remain free.
They are free now, but the proposal was to make them more convenient, by allowing view-only + markup without login. 

@Kevin Quigleys original post argued it had be free because another package was offering it for free. My queasiness was about that generic rationale, and remains intact.

pete_yodis

3dcad said:

And other point for 3d pdf is that pdf files are probably allowed in every company.
Recently, I bumped into a situation where I needed to share 350mb video to machine manufacturer. First I tried to share dropbox link - not allowed at their end, then youtube link - not allowed.
I'm afraid we are going to see similar restriction with Onshape links..

 

@3dcad I suspect dropbox and youtube are not allowed with that company because they are a bit behind the times.  I get it, that's my day job too.  Platforms like Onshape will force them to rethink their approach.  I would be curious to hear why they block them.  Do they block dropbox because of fear of information leaving their premises really easily?  (With a platform like Onshape you can totally prevent information from being anywhere but where it should be).  Do they block youtube because they fear their employees will abuse it?  I have a hard time seeing the extension to Onshape with either of these examples.  Maybe I need to understand the thinking a little better.  Do you have any idea?  With my day job, it's usually the knee jerk reaction because of past experiences with other platforms - or scary stories that they repeat to themselves over and over.  Companies will need to embrace cloud platforms in order to maximize efficiency.  Those that don't will be stuck in the past, I think, and be inefficient and unattractive to the next generation of workers who won't understand the odd logic.  My 2 cents.

pete_yodis

When GrabCAD came along I could see the potential immediately. I paid for a subscription and did influence their development, specifically to offer the no log in url. Then they were bought out by Stratasys and switched to the free system. I have to say as a company they remain responsive to requests for enhancement, but it is also fair to say those enhancement don't come along that regularly now...because the platform is more mature. The same slowing of released enhancements will happen with Onshape.

so getting back to Onshape, if you are a paying subcriber you will influence. But you also need to watch the market dynamics and tailor the offer. To be frank Onshape is not cutting it on the modelling side for us to even consider using it yet. But had they offered a reduced cost subscription with extensive (and I mean better) file viewing, annotation, measuring, conversion toolset along with say a cloud based project management solution we would be using that right now.

Modelling is tough. Doing all this other stuff should be simpler given the infrastructure that is in place. On the modelling side it is a law of diminishing returns. We use 3D to a high level. We operate in a world of G2 and G3 continuity and have to knock up complex surface daily. Do I see Onshape ever getting to that level? Maybe. But until they do we are sticking to other systems that do deliver that today.

it is up to Onshape to build the bridges to those systems so they can start to persuade us to use the Onshape platform for collaboration. The issue is, GrabCAD do exactly that right now. For free. 

@Kevin Quigley
I think it'll be much easier for Onshape to become more GrabCAD like then it will be for GrabCAD to become more Onshape like.  It's like watching Uber realize that numerous companies could become Uber-like with autonomous vehicles, but Uber will have a massive undertaking ahead to own its own underlying technology (autonomous vehicles). 

Onshape would be wise to move towards more GrabCAD like functionality (easy share of design data - youtube like) while simultaneously adding more geometry creation and manipulation capability.  Drawings will come.  I'm excited that Grabert is involved and could potentially offer more advanced drawing functionality sooner rather than later.  If it works out, then Onshape could focus more of it's resources pushing these ideas along while Grabert is the expert in their arena (2D drawings).  We'll see how that pans out.  I suspect it will show to be a smart move - especially since the 2D drafting package should be able to edit legacy DWG data natively (cool, we get 2 CAD tools in one cloud package with no install).  Onshape is not yet cutting it for me geometry creation wise either - but I suspect it has a bright future ahead of it and this would be where I want to put my effort and data in the long haul.

I don't mind an output for 3D PDF per se, I just don't want that as the only way.  I would prefer the primary way to be within Onshape.  Users could then decide if they want to live with the ramifications of static 3D PDFs existing in unknown amounts of copies in unknown locations.  Maybe offline viewing and markup capability (no geometry modification) capability in Onshape would completely negate the need for 3D PDF (I could see that being popular for numerous reasons).

I'm less convinced about the 1 package for all your needs.  Autodesk is attempting that and it's understandable, however they are going to have to be really good at every realm - CAM, PLM, FEA, render, etc...  Onshape is pushing the open API model.  It reminds me of the early Apple and Microsoft battle, or maybe better yet the PTC and early SolidWorks battle.  One company is the early one and they try to do everything and the other is a little later and invite others to attempt to do their realm better.  Maybe the answer lies in some sort of credit that Onshapers could apply towards add-on products for $100 a month fee in order to keep billing simple.  Not sure.  That will be interesting to watch, and really good for us users in the long haul.  Maybe we'll see some consolidation in the partner arena, just like we saw in the SolidWorks partner products over time.

3dcad

Totally offtopic:

pete_yodis said:

@3dcad I suspect dropbox and youtube are not allowed with that company because they are a bit behind the times.  I get it, that's my day job too.  Platforms like Onshape will force them to rethink their approach.  I would be curious to hear why they block them.  Do they block dropbox because of fear of information leaving their premises really easily?  (With a platform like Onshape you can totally prevent information from being anywhere but where it should be).  Do they block youtube because they fear their employees will abuse it?  I have a hard time seeing the extension to Onshape with either of these examples.  Maybe I need to understand the thinking a little better.  Do you have any idea?  With my day job, it's usually the knee jerk reaction because of past experiences with other platforms - or scary stories that they repeat to themselves over and over.  Companies will need to embrace cloud platforms in order to maximize efficiency.  Those that don't will be stuck in the past, I think, and be inefficient and unattractive to the next generation of workers who won't understand the odd logic.  My 2 cents.

I don't see any reason why they blocked these online services. I would rather block emails over 1mb and prefer cloud services.
If they are afraid of their own employees, they shouldn't hire them. I have bumped into these situations few times, usually with old conservative (german) companies.

For over 10 years I have been asking for 3d models of machines we have bought (~15 different type of cnc machines with loaders/un-loaders and conveyors etc.). I have even mentioned that I don't need to see any detailed units, just machine frame with floor connections and plugs for electric, air pressure and dust extraction - to be used in factory layout planning. I have succeeded only once with an automatic unloader (from italy). Abb robots I have downloaded straight from their website though.

Couple of weeks ago I was at Ligna fair (hannover, germany - should be one of the worlds biggest fairs for wood-working machinery) and I asked to include 3d models with every offer we requested. Salesmen were always with big eyes 'I don't know if we even have the 3d data, I will need to check' type answers. I don't know why it's like this, I see the 3d models of the machines in their brochures..

Even when asking for 3d model for a hinge or drawer slide - I usually need to sign some 'confidential agreement'. And then there is china, once again I wanted to have 3d model of some accessories but this time I made it an requirement for them getting the deal. They didn't have one but after a week or so they had created one Onshape might need to add another server when chinese find the the power of free version.. 

Maybe it's just about protecting their IP but in a long haul it will turn against them. 

3dcad

pete_yodis said:
.. Maybe offline viewing and markup capability (no geometry modification) capability in Onshape would completely negate the need for 3D PDF (I could see that being popular for numerous reasons)..

Can you think of the way to achieve this without any additional viewer installation? It would replace 3Dpdf for me in a heartbeat.
But if it needs installations in client side, then I don't see any value in it since the need of administrative rights to be able to view. Not to even mention the pain coming from updates and platform support issues.  

pete_yodis

3dcad said:

pete_yodis said:
.. Maybe offline viewing and markup capability (no geometry modification) capability in Onshape would completely negate the need for 3D PDF (I could see that being popular for numerous reasons)..

Can you think of the way to achieve this without any additional viewer installation? It would replace 3Dpdf for me in a heartbeat.
But if it needs installations in client side, then I don't see any value in it since the need of administrative rights to be able to view. Not to even mention the pain coming from updates and platform support issues.  

@3dcad I can't yet - but I'm not a developer... just a dreamer.  Onshape is producing apps for mobile, so they have shown they are not adverse to local installed software.  Maybe the answer lies there.  I'm not sure.  I think there is a desire for offline viewing, though ( this might be good backup, too).  Offline geometry creation doesn't seem to make sense to me in light of how the internet connection speed and spread is increasing greatly and the hurdle of now producing a lot of code and management of code for what will become a smaller issue as we go forward.  My preference.... Onshape live connection in the browser where all data is accessed and is "live".  I really don't like the idea of getting away from that.  2nd preference if you need to share something static would be to stay in the Onshape realm.  3rd preference would be something like 3DPDF, which I really don't like too much - but I understand some folks may demand it.

Pavel_7

Onshape is about being always updated - this can be done by public link (no sign up required) Tick all boxes - creates traffic, good for marketing, perfect for clients (who are NOT interested to sign up to Onshape just to VIEW the models)
Check strategy from Sketchfab.com they provides public links for free accounts and includes model in public library, while paid accounts have private link - neither needs to sign up. Everybody is happy strategy :-)

imagineered

3D PDF's are a great way of sending a quick snapshot of a current revision.
Emailing this out gives a document trail of what was communicated & when.
Not the same by giving Customer access to viewing the actual design file - no traceability.
The PDF can also be locked into a particular configuration.