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Macbook Trackpad Support

kinsleymarkkinsleymark Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
I might be missing something, but for some reason I am unable to rotate any models using my Macbook Pro trackpad. I don't have a standard mouse at all. I'm just wondering if there is a setting I need to turn on, or if this isn't supported yet.

If this isn't supported yet, a good reference point would be Fusion360 -- they do a good job with trackpad support by holding down "shift" and using two finger movements.

Comments

  • traveler_hauptmantraveler_hauptman Member, OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 419 PRO
    I have the same issue with a macbook pro running Windows and have not tried to diagnose it.
  • jakeramsleyjakeramsley Member, Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 632
    If you click down with two fingers you should be able to rotate.
    Jake Ramsley

    Director of Quality Engineering & Release Manager              onshape.com
  • Ben_Ben_ OS Professional, Mentor, Developers Posts: 286 PRO
    I secont @jramlsey 's comment it works for me...
  • kinsleymarkkinsleymark Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Some notes:

    1) I used a Mac App called "Fluid" to create a standalone web-app for Onshape - that must have broken the trackpad rotating capability.
    2) Once I opened Onshape in Safari, clicking with two fingers works.

    HOWEVER, for a Mac user, this is not the way this should be approached. Mac Trackpads use a lot of "click-less" gestures (ie. Four-Finger-Swipe = show all workspaces or move between workspaces, Three-Finger-Touch-And-Drag (not click) = moving objects, Two-Finger touch (not click) = Right Mouse Button, One-Finger-Touch (not click) = Select object, etc). A Mac trackpad is very similar in function to an iPad and should be treated as such.

    There is almost never a time that I need to forcefully "click" on the trackpad. I'm assuming this will be even more true in the near future as Apple just released a click-less trackpad for new notebooks.

    There should be a way to use finger gestures to rotate the model. (like I mentioned, Fusion 360 uses Shift + 2-Finger-Touch to rotate).

    Anyway, as long-time minority Mac user in the world of CAD, I just wanted to voice my feedback :)

  • rbaekrbaek Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 77
    Mark said:

    HOWEVER, for a Mac user, this is not the way this should be approached. Mac Trackpads use a lot of "click-less" gestures (ie. Four-Finger-Swipe = show all workspaces or move between workspaces, Three-Finger-Touch-And-Drag (not click) = moving objects, Two-Finger touch (not click) = Right Mouse Button, One-Finger-Touch (not click) = Select object, etc). A Mac trackpad is very similar in function to an iPad and should be treated as such.

    There is almost never a time that I need to forcefully "click" on the trackpad. I'm assuming this will be even more true in the near future as Apple just released a click-less trackpad for new notebooks.

    There should be a way to use finger gestures to rotate the model. (like I mentioned, Fusion 360 uses Shift + 2-Finger-Touch to rotate).

    In most Macbooks, users are required to do a two-finger click to use a right mouse button action on the trackpad. There are still many macbooks (and other notebooks) that utilize this two-finger click = right mouse button action. Personally, I'm a fan of the two-finger click, but I agree that if future trackpads will have two finger touch as right mouse button, we should support that functionality.

    Are you using the Magic Trackpad by any chance?

    You may be a minority Mac user now, but not for long :smile: 
  • nada_nixnada_nix Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2015
    Finally got signed into the forum today! I've been wanting to post this all week, but Mark beat me to it. Please don't make me buy a mouse for my MacBook! Right now I'm looking at my nice multi-gesture trackpad, and my SpaceMouse, and thinking - gosh, too bad I can't use OnShape! I've been playing around by using the arrow keys to rotate and pan, but that gets old fast.

    The right mouse button click+drag should be considered basically incompatible with the Mac. It's possible, if you have a generic USB mouse, but it should never be assumed that a Mac user is able to generate that gesture. Same for middle mouse button click.

    With an Apple trackpad or mouse, the standard is that two-finger drag, with no button down, generates X/Y scroll (2D pan). That should be used instead of right click+drag, i.e. it should be assigned to 3D rotate, and to 2D pan with control key down. I'd suggest adding zoom with alt key down - also for right click+drag - in case pinch-to-zoom doesn't work.

    [OT - it would be nice if the modifier keys could be configurable. In Fusion 360 it's 3D rotate with shift, 2D pan alone, and zoom with alt or control or command. On Mac Rhino, it's 3D rotate alone, 2D pan with shift, and zoom with alt. Actually it's smart, when you go into a flat top/side view, it swaps pan with rotate. But none of them are configurable. Well, at least could you make it so 2D pan works with both control or shift? I get terribly confused going between applications. That's why I have a SpaceMouse. Did I mention I have a SpaceMouse? SpaceMouse.]

    Assuming that the software can't determine whether you're using an Apple trackpad/mouse vs. a generic USB mouse - it's possible to have both connected at the same time - it will have to be a user setting. I don't see any way around that. People who switch back and forth will just have to suck it up.

    As far as the work-around mentioned above, of two-finger click+drag, it does work but it's not practical. The trackpad isn't designed to be used that way. It's hinged at the top. It's meant to be used by clicking and holding down with your thumb or other hand at the bottom of the trackpad, and dragging in the middle area with your finger, i.e., the same as with a traditional touchpad. But thumb down plus two-finger drag doesn't work to generate right click+drag. Maybe some people have strong enough fingers to generate the force to hold it clicked down with two fingers in the middle and upper area, overcome the friction, and drag around - but not me. It's very difficult on the built-in trackpad, and basically impossible on the external Magic Trackpad.

    In fact, I don't ever use the physical click button at all. Much less repetitive strain on the fingers. Left click is done with single finger tap, right click is done with two-finger tap. Left click+drag is done with three finger drag (no button). But there is no practical way to generate right mouse button click+drag.

    Thanks!
  • berneberne Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    ok, if freaking out... I can use the two finger click and drag to get models to rotate, but cant for the life of me get it to work with my left hand... what am I missing...  Using a macbook pro with a trackpad.
  • berneberne Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Is there anywhere that all the trackpad functions is collected into a help doc?  I need a cheat sheet until it becomes intuitive
  • nada_nixnada_nix Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2015
    Jeff, that's kind of the point - Mac trackpad functions are not really supported by OnShape. Two-finger scroll (no click) works for zoom. You have to use that undocumented and difficult two-finger click+drag to rotate, plus hold down control key to pan. That's all there is. If it doesn't work for you (doesn't work for me) you have to use a USB mouse or the keyboard shortcuts - there's a list of those in the help menu, under the question mark in the upper right.

    Or are you talking about general trackpad use on the Mac? If so, go to System Preferences -> Trackpad, and click the help question mark in the lower right. Again though, Mac gestures like pinch-to-zoom, and rotate with two fingers, are not supported by OnShape.
  • awkawk Member, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 78
    https://cad.onshape.com/help/#moving.htm Covers the various gestures and view manipulation options.

    A key thing with the MacBook trackpad is to set the secondary click option in the trackpad settings. The default 'click with two fingers' works best. There are also options on that screen to make the secondary click use a single finger click in the lower corners. That will work too - however it severely limits the amount of control you have over orbiting the model since you can only move up & left (or up & right - depending on the corner).
    Director of API, Appstore, and App Partner Technical Support
  • nada_nixnada_nix Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2015
    I was just playing around a bit, and found a couple of related ways to do this. First is to set the above "Secondary click" to "Click in bottom left corner". Then you can click there with your thumb, and drag with a finger in the middle area to rotate/pan. It's kind of only practical though, if you use "Three finger drag" for normal left button dragging, or you're able to do that by click+drag with one finger.

    The second way is setting "Secondary click" to "Click with two fingers", and click with your thumb and one finger together in the bottom corner of the trackpad. Then keep it held down with your thumb, and you can lift your finger and use it to drag in the middle area. It's tricky though, you have to get the spacing of your thumb and finger just right when you do the initial click.

    Again, this is undocumented and not officially supported by Apple. I have arthritis, so none of the solutions that require me to keep the track pad physically clicked down while dragging is practical for me. Nor is requiring me to change the basic way I interact with my computer. Hopefully it helps some people, while we wait for a better solution, i.e. simply dragging with two fingers without clicking.

    Just fyi, if you check the first box above, "tap to click" for left-click, then the second box becomes "click or tap with two fingers" for right click. The "tap" is much less strain on the fingers. Some people don't like it though, because it's too easy for them to accidentally click on something.
  • kinsleymarkkinsleymark Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
    FYI for any Mac users or modern notebook users: I added an improvement request for better trackpad support. Vote here: https://onshape.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/205313647-Trackpad-Multi-Touch-Support-i-e-better-Mac-input-support-
  • jenny_andersonjenny_anderson Member Posts: 1
    I just began with onshape, and I do a lot of design using my macbook air. The "snake bite" approach w/ the trackpad is feeling like a deal-breaker for me. Just asking for carpal tunnel!

    I am coming from Cinema 4D and Rhino, where there are simple keyboard shortcuts + mouse movements to approach the view controls.

    Cinema
    Press hold 1 + click drag mouse = pan
    Press hold 2 + click drag mouse = zoom
    Press hold 3 + click drag mouse = orbit

    Rhino
    Press hold Ctrl + click drag mouse = orbit
    Press hold Ctrl & Shift + click drag mouse = pan
    Press hold Ctrl & Command + click drag mouse = zoom

    I get that there are limitations with a browser based app when it comes to input methods. But, is it not possible to implement something like C4D? Can an in-browser app sense that you are hitting an actual keyboard letter (instead of the usual modifiers like Ctrl or alt/option) and click dragging the mouse? Multitouch is nice but not necessary, it would be okay just to press a button on the keyboard and be able to single click drag the mouse (instead of double down).

    Other than that the app looks great and obviously has loads of great features. But, being able to navigate easily is key. Thanks for all the hard work!
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    Yay: someone else thinks keyboard letters would make good modifier keys. I've always been greatly in favour of this.

    Apart from substituting for the browser-hijacked keys (I suggest particularly substiting "C" for "Control") it means shortcuts could still have meaningful shortcuts even when competing for the same letter, eg
    S+P for Show Planes
    S+K for Show sKetches
    etc, and

    H+P for Hide Planes
    H+K for Hide sKetches
    etc
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,459 PRO
    @andrew_troup has great idea to create memorizable (is it word?) shortcuts. There is one disadvantage, when using 3d mouse some of those have few buttons around joystick, they are defaulted to shift, ctrl, etc. but configurable. The problem with using multiple 'base' buttons would require both hands in keyboard which cuts the flow.

    I would prefer just alternative buttons to replace browser hijacks (shift, ctrl, alt) which could be configured to 3d mouse and push one button there and one button on keyboard. 



    I have currently configured buttons like d (dimension), n (normal view), i (coincident constraint), enter and delete; these together with shift, ctrl, esc and onscreen numpad almost replaces the need for keyboard. For me this is a big boost in productivity.
    //rami
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    @3dcad: Can you configure the 3D mouse for the first letter of the shortcut, and use the keyboard for the second?

    eg I suggested Onshape use "C" for all the modifier situations where Windows uses "Control":

    In this event, could you map the "C" key to your 3D mouse?

    Similarly for "H" and "S" (generic "Hide" and "Show" from my last post)

    I don't personally think Onshape should shackle their interface to a proprietary hardware item, especially given Onshape is intended to run on any platform.

    It's already bad enough having it shackled to the residue of scraps left over, after various browser developers have monopolised key elements of the interface.


  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,459 PRO
    edited November 2015
    @3dcad: Can you configure the 3D mouse for the first letter of the shortcut, and use the keyboard for the second?

    Sure and this was my suggestion (to replace shift, ctrl and alt with say S, C and A). But if you have too many 'first letters' I run out of buttons =)

    I agree that Onshape should not "shackle their interface to a proprietary hardware item" but I think you were here when we didn't have support for 3d mouse and remember that discussion - it is essential piece of hardware to many modelers.
    //rami
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree that 3D mouse is essential to many modellers. As are their beliefs, to many devout believers in all fields.
    But you seem to be agreeing with me that non-believers should not suffer adverse consequences for the beliefs of others....

    Perhaps you could persuade your higher powers to provide more buttons?   :p
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    On a more serious note, this seems like an area where the users could in due course be enabled to set up customised shortcuts to suit 

    a) how their brains are wired
    b) the limitations of their best-bet browser (or lack thereof)
    c) what additional hardware they use, or what is denied them by driver availability, compatibility and so forth.

    After a decade and a bit, SW finally offered a truly versatile shortcut environment. I'm sure Onshape will get there a lot quicker.

    And we would be spared the grief of trying to carry and install our shortcuts from machine to machine, through the magic of the cloud...
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,459 PRO
    Would it be easier to have completely user defined set of hotkeys tied to account?
    //rami
  • andrew_troupandrew_troup Member, Mentor Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    That was what I was advocating - but there would (I would think) always need to be a default set for new users
  • loren_brichterloren_brichter Member Posts: 1
    +1. This is a pretty easy to fix wart on an otherwise incredible product. On the Mac the most ergonomic approach is to combine modifiers with standard two-finger-scrolling (currently reserved for zooming). No clicking necessary, and the best part is by simply changing the modifier keys held down during a single continuous gesture you can cycle through the different interpretations.

    My personal preference about modifier mapping is that un-modified scroll (wheel) events should be interpreted as panning, then [command | shift | command+shift] be allocated to other interpretations (perhaps orbit, zoom, lookaround?).
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