Not easy to use on a MacBook

david_largent

Having to press down and drag two fingers on the trackpad is not very easy to do.  I would probably use this if it was easer to control on an Apple laptop.

philip_thomas

3dcad

@philip_thomas   (No actual animals were harmed during photographing at Philip's office ?)

@david_largent When I got my chromebook I was annoyed of this same thing, I got nice tip (thanks @andrew_troup ). Put two finger on touch pad and click it with your freehand slightly in the corner - you can then lift your hand and use one finger to move as long as you keep it pressed.
Sounds more complex than is and this grows into you in couple of nights playing with Onshape.

lougallo

@philip_thomas "Snake bite click"

andrew_troup

The method @3dcad describes uses two fingers from one hand resting lightly on the touchpad, then a finger from the other hand presses the touchpad down. This is optimised for a hinged touchpad where the whole pad swings down to act as the LMB click, as on a Chromebook.

In case anyone is not getting this to work for them, here's another way of describing or achieving a result:
strike the (hinged) touchpad ) with your left and right index fingers (the one you pick your nose with and its mirror image)

a) a similar, small distance (for both fingertips) from the *bottom* edge of the touchpad
b) at the exact same instant

The latter is more easily achieved if it is a sudden move, hence the aptness of the "snakebite" nickname.

Leave one finger pressing the touchpad down; the other finger can now be lifted and make repeated strokes or swipes across the touchpad to revolve your model.

With practice, this can be done with one hand only, using the thumb as the "holding down" digit, and the finger next to your index finger (aka finger "3" if you are a musical keyboard player) to do the stroking or swiping. 

Other techniques are available! Experiment to find what is comfortable and repeatable for you.

3dcad

At work I wen't with @philip_thomas solution, at first glance feels very good..
http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/cadmouse.html

kinsleymark

Hopefully Onshape moves to support the direction that all trackpads are moving (not just on a Mac). Onshape is positioning itself as advanced and mobile-friendly, so I would think that it would eventually support the advanced input methods of those mobile devices. (look at the most recent Apple Keynotes -- force-touch, multi-finger-gestures, pinch-to-zoom, etc. -- when's the last time a mouse was mentioned or used?).

"Clicking" isn't needed any more on a Mac. And no other advanced program I use needs a mouse anymore (Photoshop, Keyshot, Illustrator, Fusion360). I'm not going to pack a mouse with me just so I can use my "advanced, future-of-CAD" system  

Fusion360 is a good reference for what is possible. It currently supports much of this (shift+two finger touch, pinch-to-zoom, two-finger pan, etc). I'm hoping that the Onshape team is just more focused on the internal functions of the program right now before getting around to accommodating us picky Apple users  

Ben_

Great trick thank you! @3dcad

billy2

I totally agree, spinning a model should be easier,  I'm growing extra muscles having to hold the pad down to rotate. Not really wanting to use 2 hands to rotate either. There has to be a better way.

I'm starting to look like a fiddler crab because of the excessive workout in one arm. 

3dcad

@mark_kinsley Shouldn't the future be touchscreen on all devices rather than enhanced trackpads..?

I followed my 3 year old son when he was trying to draw with my chromebook, he just couldn't understand why nothing happens when he moves finger on screen and why should he touch anything else if he's trying to draw something on the screen.. He had been drawing earlier with ipad.
It's amazing how fast even 1 year old (my daughter) figures out ipad or smartphone drawing or browsing photogallery. I think if 1 year old figures out something on her own, it's pretty good UI design. I'm sure they both will skip the mouse, I can then tell stories how computers where controlled in the past by using this ugly device

pete_yodis

3dcad said:

@mark_kinsley Shouldn't the future be touchscreen on all devices rather than enhanced trackpads..?

I followed my 3 year old son when he was trying to draw with my chromebook, he just couldn't understand why nothing happens when he moves finger on screen and why should he touch anything else if he's trying to draw something on the screen.. He had been drawing earlier with ipad.
It's amazing how fast even 1 year old (my daughter) figures out ipad or smartphone drawing or browsing photogallery. I think if 1 year old figures out something on her own, it's pretty good UI design. I'm sure they both will skip the mouse, I can then tell stories how computers where controlled in the past by using this ugly device

@3dcad Good points.  I laughed when my kids tried to touch my sister-in laws macbook screen... or when they tried to touch our new TV.

With things like eye tracking and motion tracking and augmented reality tech, we won't even need to touch a display at some near point.  We may just need to "air over" things to manipulate their orientation.  Interfaces are moving to a much more natural way of interacting.  Would that help with your one-arm bandit carpel tunnel syndrome @billy ?  (love that pic).  I will really want the floating toolbars then (SolidWorks "S" key)...

nada_nix

Fwiw, I gave up on Onshape, because it's too difficult to use on my Mac. It supports neither the Mac trackpad, nor my 3D space mouse. I don't want to have to hook up an old USB mouse, just to use this program. I just dropped by today to see if anything had changed, guess it will be some time still.

And no, the future is not touchscreen on all devices, because gorilla arm.

lougallo

@nada_nix We are working on 3D space mouse support and it does come with some challenges due to being browser based but many of the challenges we have worked out.  We hope to get to out to everyone soon.  As far as using it on the trackpad, can you elaborate what you would like to see?  I use Onshape a lot on my Google Pixel with the trackpad only and there are some things we hope to do for making that better.  Multi-touch? One finger rotate?  Have you used Onshape on mobile?  Would you like to see more of that interaction via the trackpads that support multi-touch?  Let us know. 

kinsleymark

@lougallo
Essentially, Rotate, Pan, Zoom, Select, Move, etc. should all be accessible without ever needing to physically "click" down on the trackpad. (So I think the only issue with Onshape is trying to rotate the model via a trackpad).
The trackpad should be thought of in the same way that an iPad is used (ie. you would never physically "click" down on an iPad). Just a tap or a finger slide is all that is needed.

ONE FINGER TOUCH/SLIDE
A "one-finger" touch or slide should be always be reserved for selecting or moving the pointer. (This is in contrast to an iPad where the "one-finger" slide is used to rotate the model).

TWO FINGER TOUCH/SLIDE
"two-finger" touch or slide works well for rotating, panning, zooming, or "right-click". Adding a +SHIFT , +CRTL, or +OPTION/ALT works really well for differentiating a rotating, panning, or zoom motion. Pinch-to-zoom also works well (although I tend to use +ALT to zoom more often). Side note: Pinch-to-zoom may be an issue since most Mac browsers reserve the gesture to zoom out to view all browser tabs.

THREE FINGER SLIDE
"three-finger" slide works great for grabbing and moving objects.


Overall - there shouldn't be a need to reinvent the wheel or come up with new unique gestures. Just turn on all the finger gestures in Mac preferences and play around with some programs to see what is already being done. (Or bring a Mac person in-house that can go over all the gestures - I'm available as a consultant  ) Also play around with Fusion360 -- they've done a great job of implementing the gestures listed above.

nada_nix

@lougallo The problem is the requirement to drag with the right mouse button down, to rotate the model. That gesture has generally never been used or supported on the Mac. The "snake bite click" work-around is not practical for me, and I think it's asking too much to make Mac users change the fundamental way they interact with their computer, just to use Onshape. I use a Magic Trackpad to the right of my keyboard, so two-handed gestures are a no-go. I also have arthritis in my fingers, so I use three-finger dragging for left-click-drag (a godsend!) so that I don't have to use any pressure on the trackpad - but there is no equivalent for right-click-drag. There is no other software on my Mac that requires me to physically click and hold down the Magic Trackpad. So that's the reason that I can't use Onshape.

I already wrote a long post about what I'd like to see, back in March:
https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/comment/2723

juan_aviles

nada_nix said:

Fwiw, I gave up on Onshape, because it's too difficult to use on my Mac. It supports neither the Mac trackpad, nor my 3D space mouse. I don't want to have to hook up an old USB mouse, just to use this program. I just dropped by today to see if anything had changed, guess it will be some time still.

And no, the future is not touchscreen on all devices, because gorilla arm.

I agree that the future is not all about touch screens.  Some of us are machinists who use CAD to inspect models and verify dimensions while working.  There is no way I'm putting my fingers on a screen while I'm at my mill (my keyboard has a protective cover that I can wash). 

I've also stopped using Onshape for awhile until either 3D mouse support is incorporated, or we have the ability to reassign mouse buttons.  I find RMB for rotate conflicts with my other programs like GibbsCAM, SprutCAM and Solidworks (not to mention Sketchup, Blender, Maya...) which all use MMB.  Whiny complaint I know, but I'd rather wait than be frustrated while using Onshape.

3dcad

juan_aviles said:

nada_nix said:

Fwiw, I gave up on Onshape, because it's too difficult to use on my Mac. It supports neither the Mac trackpad, nor my 3D space mouse. I don't want to have to hook up an old USB mouse, just to use this program. I just dropped by today to see if anything had changed, guess it will be some time still.

And no, the future is not touchscreen on all devices, because gorilla arm.

I agree that the future is not all about touch screens.  Some of us are machinists who use CAD to inspect models and verify dimensions while working.  There is no way I'm putting my fingers on a screen while I'm at my mill (my keyboard has a protective cover that I can wash)...

Not trying to prove anything but..
Most of recent woodworking machinery operate with touchscreen - I wouldn't choose that but they didn't ask me. There is already dust&water proof tablets, so screen could be washed or handled with some nano-surface to keep it clean. Or use a stack of protective cover like we use in motocross goggles. 

I'm sure we will have a bunch of settings to customize UI but it is more important to have the basic features before tweaking.

kinsleymark

FYI for any Mac users or modern notebook users: I added an improvement request for better trackpad support. Vote here: https://onshape.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/205313647-Trackpad-Multi-Touch-Support-i-e-better-Mac-input-support-