Onshape has been acquired by PTC

john_mcclary

@don_williams909
I am ignorant when it comes to Creo, can you point out a few of the things your talking about that Creo does differently?

don_williams909

david_7 said:

"...SolidWorks shows up and you can run it on your laptop! Nimble development and nice Windows interface. It gets bought up and slowly turns into bloatware with each release becoming less stable than the last..." 

You should have also mentioned AutoCAD, which is the biggest piece of convoluted bloatware ever created!  LOL

Also, there was McDonnell Douglas Unigraphics, which was incredible (now Siemens NX) back in the day.

don_williams909

@john_mcclary - Lots of things!  The biggest things are the ability to create and saved exploded states in assemblies, a fully featured assembly tree that allows you to activate a particular part and modify it right in the assembly, and create parametric relationships.  You can group items withing an assembly tree, in what is essentially a folder structure.  You can also use parameters to drive drawings, models, etc.  You can modify the surface colors and textures of individual surfaces, not just the whole part.  Dimensioning of drawings is easier, as well as being able to have those exploded views show up in drawings, along with explode lines.  Check out the capabilities on their website, as well as Youtube videos.

john_mcclary

Ok, sounds like all the same stuff that solidworks does.

Thankfully Onshape is set up to have full parametric relations with exploded states with the way in-context works.

All they need to do is add an interface for creating explosions faster. Otherwise you can do it today with configurations. Just tedious AF.

A few of the other things you have mentioned are pretty standard, Onshape just needs to catch-up in those areas.

There are a lot of improvement requests out for most of that. Just a matter of waiting and hoping

I was wondering if there was anything fundamentally different that makes Creo parametric stronger than SW or Onshape.

Like something in the kernel that is more robust than parasolid. Or something that makes the links between files easier to manage.

SW parametric is basically garbage and should be avoided at all costs. (at least when linking other files or contexts)

Onshape has the strongest parametric modeler (in theory) just because everything is in a database. So linking contexts between other documents or parts is practically invisible, albeit slow to regen at times.

philip_thomas

@don_williams909 - All much needed functionality!

Exploded views - coming
Edit in context - here today! (RMB)
Folders in Assembly Tree - Please submit pro enhancement request to move it up the list (I would love it)
Parameters can be mapped to properties that are then used in the drawings - open a support ticket if you need help doing this
Face colors - coming!
As always, you the pro users determine the order in which we work on things - the pro supports tickets are how we know what to work on. GREAT LIST!

billy2

@larry_hawes

I couldn't finish it, 

larry_hawes

billy2 said:

@larry_hawes

I couldn't finish it, 

Well at least you got it started...

john_mcclary

HAH

michael3424

Not sure if anyone has asked this yet, but how will the acquisition affect the vendors and applications in the Onshape App Store?

dan_schniers

I have used PTC Proengineer-Creo for almost 30 years and I don't know if other Proe users have noticed this but a lot of the command structure is very similar in Onshape. when I started using Onshape I was able to start using it very quickly because of this I think that PTC sees the writing on the wall that more and more Companies are wanting cloud based software so that they do not need to have I.T. to do updates and maintain the software, this is something that i have had to do for years. The one thing I hope is that the customer service for Oshape does not get as bad as PTC's has over the years.          KEEP Onshape GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3dcad

dan_schniers said:

I have used PTC Proengineer-Creo for almost 30 years and I don't know if other Proe users have noticed this but a lot of the command structure is very similar in Onshape. ..

I think this is the case between majority of cads in this range (solid works, solid edge, inventor, alibre) and creo by your note as I don't have experience n that..

NeilCooke

The acquisition officially closed yesterday: https://www.ptc.com/en/news/2019/ptc-completes-acquisition-onshape

Coincidentally, yesterday was 7 years to the day that Belmont Technologies was founded and the dream of full-cloud CAD, going by the name of BelCAD, began. Thankfully, we thought of a better name

emagdalenaC2i

I will love to see in Onshape the Frustum technology (bought 1 year ago for 70 million).

PD: Please tell PTC people that we are going to develop an Addin to integrate Onshape with ERP systems

Marco_Savary

Insane!!!! This news is Insane!!!

I'm a ProEngineer since version 18 and Onshape user since the beginning and I hope this goes well. But I don't see a single common thread between the two software. PTC has a very nasty pricing scheme and a convoluted data manager "Windchill." and Onshape it is not like that.

Onshape is a Multibody and Creo is a single part modeler. And on and on. Both applications are so far apart in every click.

By the way. Onshape name is going away for sure. Just saying! Perhaps Creo Live!

The merger has to be quick or PTC will chop Onshape limb by limb, and by 2025, no one will know this company ever existed.

But If you guys can pull this off and merge Creo into Onshape, and the current PTC customer can downgrade to a SaaS license, then the game is on. Bye-bye SW.

Congrats!!!

Jake_Rosenfeld

Us cloud people would probably say "upgrade to a SaaS license"

owen_sparks

I do wish people wouldn't use the term "SaaS" like it's a good happy thing. Some of us are old enough to remember buying stuff and actually owning it afterwards...

john_mcclary

owen_sparks said:

I do wish people wouldn't use the term "SaaS" like it's a good happy thing. Some of us are old enough to remember buying stuff and actually owning it afterwards...

Data on your server is just as tangible as data on a cloud server, but you don't need to worry about security and backups. You basically rent professionals at a data center to triple check you don't lose your data, or have it hacked. (although it can happen, it is actively guarded against... when was the last time you checked the dark net for the latest day 1 hacks to guard against?)

It is absolutely a good thing in all ways but one.. you can't open a server closet and feel the warmth of the metal casing of the hard drive.

Marco_Savary

In 2007 PTC bought another multibody cad system called Cocreate and What happened???. As a user, I only notice a few changes: They got rid of the name of Cocreate into Creo Elements Direct. And they brought into Wildfire the Push and Pull modeling Trick. And just now, 12 years later they are introducing sketching with crossed shapes. Cocreate had that feature in 2007. I don't recall anything more.

If PTC bought Cocreate in a Fire Sale, perhaps it made sense since they got the customer base. Otherwise, there no was value-added to PTC lined up.

I hope this not happen to Onshape.

Or Onshape will become the new Creo Elements Direct "Live". And Creo Parametric will not change a bit.

Jake_Rosenfeld

My laptop was stolen my senior year of college, along with most of my programming projects, all of my written work, and lots of old pictures. I learned a pretty valuable lesson that day that if I had just used github, google docs, and some cloud picture storage (I have a raw AWS S3 bucket for that now but that's a little too low level for most), I would still have all of that stuff today.  I trust the cloud way more than I trust myself or the single non-redundant hard drive on my computer...

Last year I got a new Onshape laptop and was given the option of transferring all the data from my old laptop to my new one and turned it down since there isn't really any data on my laptop.  I just opened the new one, pulled some code from github, signed into my mail accounts and was on my way.

I did the same this weekend with my new phone.  Had the option to transfer all my data and turned it down.  Just downloaded all my apps, signed in and was ready to go.

For me, keeping track of my own data all the time just adds stress and risk.

3dcad

I agree in most cases cloud is the way to go.

I wish to have a phone without apps crying for constant updates - apps should be SaaS and phone just dummy screen to show my stuff from cloud server. Everything automatically updating in server side while I can concentrate on which phone to take with me as they all have always the same stuff with single sign in.

I would also like to see saas in industrial machinery (like cnc workstations), it would change the game with used machines and might raise the level of software. At the moment the bar is not that high.

I know you need internet connection to use cloud services but I think we have reached a point where it is possible to count on having connection with say fibre+2x 4g from different providers. 

john_mceleney

It has been almost two weeks since Jon shared the news about our acquisition by PTC and I'd like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and concerns (as well as the thousands that have viewed this post and messages).

We are excited about the opportunities that this will create and realistic about the challenges we will face. As was said by several Onshape employees: judge us by how we perform. Many will speculate about why this acquisition took place, here are a few good posts that I think that capture the strategic rationale very well. 

As always, keep pushing us - this will help to make Onshape better!

John

https://www.engineering.com/PLMERP/ArticleID/19690/PTCs-Onshape-Acquisition-Did-SOLIDWORKS-Founder-Jon-Hirschtick-Have-to-Sell.aspx

http://beyondplm.com/2019/10/31/why-ptc-is-on-the-right-track-building-a-future-multi-tenant-plm-platform/

https://tech-clarity.com/cad-cloud/8318

don_williams909

dan_schniers said:

I have used PTC Proengineer-Creo for almost 30 years and I don't know if other Proe users have noticed this but a lot of the command structure is very similar in Onshape.

I have to disagree to an extent.  Onshape's menu structure and capability is more of a whittled-down version, without anywhere near the functionality available in Creo.  When comparing the two, there's a ton that Creo can do that Onshape can't.

adrian_vlzkz

larry_hawes said:

The END of Onshape? Does he have any good points?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v0USh10jmg

His videos about Onshape are unbearable... The guy has obviously not used it, nor he understands SaaS, yet has big opinions about it. ugh!

brian_brady

don_williams909 said:

dan_schniers said:

I have used PTC Proengineer-Creo for almost 30 years and I don't know if other Proe users have noticed this but a lot of the command structure is very similar in Onshape.

I have to disagree to an extent.  Onshape's menu structure and capability is more of a whittled-down version, without anywhere near the functionality available in Creo.  When comparing the two, there's a ton that Creo can do that Onshape can't.

@don_williams909 You are right that Creo does more, it's been around the block a few more times so it should. But for machine design at least, I think Onshape does almost everything it needs to do. The difference being that Onshape is more friendly and intuitive in most respects than Creo (or SW). I teach CAD beginners in college and they love Onshape and start being productive much faster than when I used Creo just a few years ago. Not every industry or segment of industry needs all of the features packed into the big boys. As long as Onshape continues to improve and operate independently of Creo and PTC (at least from a customer point of view), then I see a place for Onshape.

By the way (this comment is aimed at everybody), after my students use Onshape, almost to the student they hate going back to SW, Creo, or any other CAD system. These are your future engineers and designers.

tim_hess427

When discussing feature parity between CAD packages, its important to keep in mind the things that Onshape has that the others don't have. Revision control and the collaboration capabilities included without the need to purchase a server and PDM license is pretty amazing, in my opinion.

jim_heppelmann

I love the passion on this forum, and to see how much love customers have for Onshape - the technology and the people.  That is really great.  Its been fun to read all the speculation about what good and bad things PTC might do with Onshape.  Here is what I would do if I were CEO of PTC.  Grab a chair.   ;-)

Jim Heppelmann
CEO @ PTC

brucebartlett

jim_heppelmann said:

I love the passion on this forum, and to see how much love customers have for Onshape - the technology and the people.  That is really great.  Its been fun to read all the speculation about what good and bad things PTC might do with Onshape.  Here is what I would do if I were CEO of PTC.  Grab a chair.   ;-)

Jim Heppelmann
CEO @ PTC

Hi Jim, thanks for jumping in, we appreciate that you are listening to the current users who have taken a chance on SaaS CAD, the benefits of this platform are huge and I think you've made a good purchase. Also thanks for sharing your vision for Onshape, we are definitely looking forward to the value that PTC can add to accelerate Onshape’s trajectory and as a small business owner with only a few licenses hope that Onshape continues to be the best choice for me.  

emagdalenaC2i

Hi Jim.

I am sure there will be many Onshape users who will appreciate your words here.
Borrowing a quote from 'The Blues Brothers' (and @Dave_Corcoran in this old post "Recruiting Onshape's Dream Team Went Far Beyond CAD"): Welcome to the band

romeograham

Thanks @jim_heppelmann for the thoughtful piece laying out the shared vision around Onshape. As you said - this is a small but passionate user base, and we are growing more passionate (on dependent!) on Onshape over time.

Our company has transitioned from "SolidWorks first, Onshape on the side" to "Onshape first, SolidWorks just to find old files" in a very short time, and the advantages are clear for us. There is no looking back.

Can't wait to see where this goes with more resources and such a strong vision to complement and support the fantastic team at Onshape. 

kevin_quigley

Thank you @jim_heppelmann for a  really insightful commentary on the whole business strategy of desktop vs SaaS and where it fits in the PTC world. I thought the ICE vs EV anaolgy was inspired - never thought if it that way before. As a Creo user (alongside SolidWorks) I appreciate the back story to the Creo sales strategy. Creo is a phenomenal piece of software - extremely powerful, and VERY undersold, in my view, to micro and SMEs. The Freestyle functionality wipes the floor of any equivalent functionality on offer from any major CAD vendor right now. Then there is Style (as was, ISDX), which albeit is an extra cost module, but very powerful. As a platform it is rock solid and fast.

But Creo is cumbersome. The licensing protocols are 1990s rather than 2019. It is costly to run (taken as a whole). And it is a substantial cost when you start to add in a lot of the functionality that more specialist design buinesses like ours need (namely surfacing).

If Onshape is to become the unhindered SaaS solution for SMEs I sincerely hope that PTC opens up the Freestyle and Style jewels to the Onshape development team. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Freestyle and Style could be integrated at a feature level in Onshape (as it is in Creo)? If that does eventually come to pass then that will be the day that @joe_dunne can call me up and say "Ha Kevin I told you so! Should have taken that $50 a month offer"! ;-)