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Library Parts

adrian_vlzkzadrian_vlzkz Member Posts: 109 PRO
edited December 2016 in Data management
We are in the process of evaluating Onshape as solution in Conjunction with SW. I some questions/concerns in regards to Library Parts. This could be Purchased Components, Fixtures we design or just legacy product reference in new designs. The implementation of Linked Parts seem like a step in the right direction, but still posts some concerns.

They mentioned the idea of grouping certain Library Components into Documents, but I don't quite like the idea of multiple "independent" Parts relying on Versioning of a Top Level Document. As a "Data Management" solution this is not ideal (Permissions, Traceability).

Is there something in the works for this, is Tab specific Versioning the answer?
Adrian V.
Sr. CAD Engineer

Comments

  • david_mackenziedavid_mackenzie Member Posts: 2
    I would like to see this answered, too.  Ultimately, this is the Achilles heel of the product IMHO.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    +1
    //rami
  • leon_pootleon_poot Member, Developers Posts: 87 ✭✭
    +1
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
  • john_mcclaryjohn_mcclary Member, Developers Posts: 1,844 PRO
    +1
  • owen_sparksowen_sparks Member, Developers Posts: 2,259 PRO
    edited March 2017
    Heck yeah, this must be making its way up the list.

    OwS
    Production Engineer
    HWM-Water Ltd
  • Jake_RosenfeldJake_Rosenfeld Moderator, Onshape Employees, Developers Posts: 1,285
    Can you guys make an improvement request (on the right side of this page) rather than +1ing on this post? That way your votes will automatically be in our system.
    Jake Rosenfeld - Modeling Team
  • owen_sparksowen_sparks Member, Developers Posts: 2,259 PRO
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    //rami
  • dennis_20dennis_20 Member Posts: 88 ✭✭✭
    How about voting for an IR on this that has been there since August 12, 2015
    https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/1407/public-standard-parts-library#latest


  • john_mcclaryjohn_mcclary Member, Developers Posts: 1,844 PRO
    dennis_20 said:
    How about voting for an IR on this that has been there since August 12, 2015
    https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/1407/public-standard-parts-library#latest


    That appears to be a OnShape managed version. Which seems pretty ambitious to be honest. I'd rather OS dedicate themselves to making OnShape better. Rather than drawing our parts library for us.

    We need a private library for each company. To me managed by each company.
    As far as nuts and bolts as he described in that link. Just make your own in your library. Or use the PartCommunity App..

    Right now we need to make a document that holds all of our library of parts. Which seems ok, but then everytime you make a change, or add something you need to do all this versioning crap for the whole document.

    I don't know what the answer is, but so far a linked "library" document is just good enough. There is an opportunity for greatness here, I hope one day someone has a good answer.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    I think it's fair to assume that every designer has some sort of standard library? That being the case, maybe those documents could have check box that they are a bit different from ordinary project containers.

    They should appear in separate section always easy to access, handle versions per tab(s) (supporting also standard part+std sub-assy combo).
    And when we have configurations that fills another important gap on using std parts. Replace part could be automated in only couple clicks when you know it's only change between nut to another similar.

    What I'm trying to say is that if Onshape would know which docs are for standard parts they could make some automation on those. Including possibility to link to current version.

    I suppose we all rather spend time on that tricky bit of desing than struggle with easily predictable parts which we use all the time.
    //rami
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 1,843 PRO
    @john_mcclary @3dcad I think there is some room for improvement here. I have been building various libraries and adding these parts/assys to multiple projects but have broken up my libraries to limit the versioning which goes on when adding new parts to your library. We definitely need a tool to dovetail nicely into companies as released and unreleased stock components with individual versioning.  

    john_mcclary said:

    Right now we need to make a document that holds all of our library of parts. Which seems ok, but then everytime you make a change, or add something you need to do all this versioning crap for the whole document.

    Maybe we need an improvement request for, Parts library without versioning crap for the whole document.
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • adrian_vlzkzadrian_vlzkz Member Posts: 109 PRO
    Maybe we need an improvement request for, Parts library without versioning crap for the whole document.


    On my original comment I do mention that Library Parts are composed of more that just purchased parts. I've worked in multiple environments where this is the case. So version management for these is still required.
    Adrian V.
    Sr. CAD Engineer
  • brucebartlettbrucebartlett Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 1,843 PRO

    On my original comment I do mention that Library Parts are composed of more that just purchased parts. I've worked in multiple environments where this is the case. So version management for these is still required.
    Yes but I also think version management on vendor/purchased part's has its place too. The key point I was making is if you have a library (using an Onshape doc) with a1000 parts in it and change 1 every one of these parts used it every place needs updating to the latest version.
    Engineer ı Product Designer ı Onshape Consulting Partner
    Twitter: @onshapetricks  & @babart1977   
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    I only work in my own environment but for me it would be best if I could choose to link to current version or static release.

    This is because sometimes I can hold multiple versions in production but there are also cases where something is not available anymore and I'm forced to move on and change something else to make new parts fit.

    And I often like to create 'early assemblies' to see things get shape yet I have a lot of parts to do before any final versions.

    How would you guys think version graph could handle per tab versioning and how would it work with standard assemblies (do you need to first create part tab version then update sub-assy tab and create version there to be able to update version in linked main assembly).

    I would like to have some sort of smart versions, so that I could use current version all the time but if I do something that would brake any of my linked assemblies system would create version to prevent that happening (like remove part or so). And of course manual 'milestone' versions in addition to automatic, but get rid of forced versions.
    //rami
  • robert_morrisrobert_morris OS Professional, Developers Posts: 155 PRO
    There was a big discussion about part libraries and versions back when linked documents first came out (full thread here: https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/3652/standard-parts-and-linked-documents/p1).

    Lots of good discussion there including this comment (https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/comment/17779#Comment_17779) by @jon_hirschtick
    in which he suggested being able to link to a specific revision of a part (not the document), that way you didn't have to worry about being notified every time the document version got bumped.

    That would make it a lot easier to maintain a document of library parts.
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    @robert_morris
    Thanks for remainder. Maybe these two threads should be combined so we don't need to repeat our selves in multiple threads ( @lougallo )?
    //rami
  • antonio_borrettiantonio_borretti Member Posts: 3
    +1
  • michael_bromleymichael_bromley Member Posts: 72 PRO
    So I'm curious how is everyone handling part libraries that are not currently in the offered standard content?
  • john_mcclaryjohn_mcclary Member, Developers Posts: 1,844 PRO
    I just have a shared folder called library that I save all the common stuff.
    That way anyone with the share has access and knows where to look
  • michael_bromleymichael_bromley Member Posts: 72 PRO
    edited January 16
    I just have a shared folder called library that I save all the common stuff.
    That way anyone with the share has access and knows where to look
    So each part is in its own document? if multiple parts are in a document you go through the process of versioning the document each time a part is added?  Are you in a routine of inserting the part at a specific version? or do you just deal with all standard parts showing the update linked document symbol?
  • adrian_vlzkzadrian_vlzkz Member Posts: 109 PRO
    A lot a capability has been introduced in the 2+ years since my original post, but even with Release Management and Standard Content my concern prevails. 

     Is it best practice to group Library Parts in one Document as Tabs, or have each Component be a separate Document?

    I understand a "Best Practice" will primarily be determined by each user environment, but in terms of Onshape Data Architecture some Guidelines would be nice.
    Adrian V.
    Sr. CAD Engineer
  • john_mcclaryjohn_mcclary Member, Developers Posts: 1,844 PRO
    edited January 16
    I just have a shared folder called library that I save all the common stuff.
    That way anyone with the share has access and knows where to look
    So each part is in its own document? if multiple parts are in a document you go through the process of versioning the document each time a part is added?  Are you in a routine of inserting the part at a specific version? or do you just deal with all standard parts showing the update linked document symbol?
    It depends, I have some that are mashed into a single document that rarely change:
    Material Library
    Our Logo Laser Template
    Some feature scripts
    common shop references like Fork Trucks or Human Ergonomics, etc.

    Another might have some of my most common sensors in configurations:
    IFM Barrel: 12mm - 18mm - short / long - Flush mount - Prox / Photoeye
    P&F Cube Prox
    Etc

    But then I put more unique things in separate documents, that I plan on updating every now and then:
    - Steel Profiles for Beams FeatureScript
    - Replacement parts for laser/plasma table

    Edit: Almost forgot about common Blocks like an Approval Stamp

  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    We had all the accessories in single document but got frustrated with continuous versioning and confusion if I should update when I see the icon or not. Recently, I have divided accessories to hinges, slides, castor, etc.. and I feel that is easier to maintain than old way.

    Basically I created new doc for each tab folder we had in doc accessories. And of course I have now document folder called accessories.

    And when we have something special like adjustable desk frame, it goes to separate doc.

    ps. Moving models & sub-assemblies from doc to another and between folders wen't without ANY problems. Not a single broken assembly. Think of doing this with traditional cad for your standard parts -folder  :dizzy:
    //rami
  • robert_morrisrobert_morris OS Professional, Developers Posts: 155 PRO
    We have a shared Library Parts folder. Inside that are a bunch of documents - one for bearings, one for o-rings, etc. Each document has all the variants that we use in our assemblies.

    If we add an item to a document, then it gets a new version. Links to the library parts in other documents are updated when we get around to it and happen to be in that document.

    For custom parts that we manufacture that are common across assemblies, we keep in their own individual document with it's drawing. If those are updated, then we go update all the assemblies that they are used in right away.
  • owen_sparksowen_sparks Member, Developers Posts: 2,259 PRO
    I'm using documents for common parts.  If we had company wide labels (so we could search easily for all users) then I'd put library parts in their own individual documents, presuming they're not built on the fly from configurations.

    Cheers, Owen S.
    Production Engineer
    HWM-Water Ltd
  • 3dcad3dcad Member, OS Professional, Mentor Posts: 2,378 PRO
    ..
    For custom parts that we manufacture that are common across assemblies, we keep in their own individual document with it's drawing. If those are updated, then we go update all the assemblies that they are used in right away.
    This should be automated process and have a check box in create version dialog - check to automatically update version for all documents that reference this document. Going further, it would be nice to see a list of docs that use the part and which version and select to batch update.
    //rami
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